[Complete beginner] Need advice, help and everything

[Niclas L Seifen]

Okay first of I'm not a complete beginner, i threw together af 2x12 cap a couple months ago with a simple slot port <- didn't sound great.

Now yesterday my old Phillips soundbar/bass broke and i would like an "upgrade". I'm starting with the bass.

I've been looking at a Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15"
Anyone that have experience with it and/or better options?

What I'm looking for is a deep bass over loud bass.

I do have the skills/tools to make complex folded horns and horns in general seems like the best option, + size doesn't matter to me.

Bass lords please bless me with knowledge

 

[planet10]

I've been looking at a Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15"
Anyone that have experience with it and/or better options?

Do consider 2 smaller drivers loaded push-push. It will dramatically reduce the vibrational load on the box (meaning one can often get away with braced 15mm quality ply instead of more. Especially if a horn or TL where the TL/horn path can be a significant source of bracing.

dave

 

[Turbowatch2]

If you do not want a horn the size of a small flat, there is no "deep bass" from a horn. If you want deeper than 35 Hz linear, the size of a horn explodes. Exponentially. That is why some are called "Expo-horn´s".

So, for deep bass, there is basically closed, vented or passive radiator left, may be transmission line. Last not for beginners and in need of practical tests. Maybe construction number 5 will work well. Which would be extreme luck.

If you want high quality, go closed, extremely braced (extreme "extreme", please) and large volume. Dual 12" is fine. If you can do it, like planet10 wrote, chassis on opposing sides, eliminating the sub from jumping through your room. I separate the volumes of both chassis, in such constructions, by a diagonal wall inside.
So, here you have your world class sub recipe.
You mentioned Dayton. Fine sub woofer´s in that line. A 15" will be compare able to two 12" of that series.
You can build a 2x15" too. Depends on what kind of house you live in. Is it build earth quake resistant?
Think about the amp you will need and the x-over / DSP.
Some moderately priced PA stuff should be fine.

ps: The 12" in question is the
Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm
two of them will get same/ better result than one 15".

 

[rayma]

I'm looking for is a deep bass over loud bass.

Then you could consider a transmission line also.

 

[Jag768]

Small overview of enclosure types
Sealed: easy to build, small, extension as deep as you desire, more amp power needed and less output
Vented: bigger, somewhat harder to build, possible port noise if undersized, extension determined by port tuning freq, more output than sealed
6th order bandpass and similar: even bigger, complex build, quite large (but no front loaded horn large), extension determined by size and tuning, lots of output

 

[planet10]

Sealed: easy to build, small, extension as deep as you desire, more amp power needed and less output

Vented: bigger, somewhat harder to build, possible port noise if undersized, extension determined by port tuning freq, more output than sealed

This is a bit simplistic when you add the room. Often, particularily if you want to go real low, the 2nd order rolloff of the sealed box cab lead to flat, more extended bass because they match room gain better.

Below its cutoff, a vented enclosure unloads so can go no lower. Not the case with sealed, one can take advantage of that to EQ/Transform the bass to go even lower, albeit one pays with excursion and power requirements.

Of course these are generalizations and things differ depending on drivers, box design, execution, amps, room, placement, taste…

dave

 

[Jag768]

This is a bit simplistic when you add the room. Often, particularily if you want to go real low, the 2nd order rolloff of the sealed box cab lead to flat, more extended bass because they match room gain better.

Below its cutoff, a vented enclosure unloads so can go no lower. Not the case with sealed, one can take advantage of that to EQ/Transform the bass to go even lower, albeit one pays with excursion and power requirements.

Of course these are generalizations and things differ depending on drivers, box design, execution, amps, room, placement, taste…

dave

I agree that room and it's modal response determines everything and all attention should be paid to account for it. However, room gain starts only beneath the lowest modal frequency which is in the order of 25hz for normal room size.

 

[Niclas L Seifen]

I've looked at this a couple times (also were i first found that nice Dayton woofer)

Tuba HT
Anyone that have pro/cons?

But at the same time i want something that i could use to throw real parties up to 50-100 people...

Space aren't a problem, budget is though. and 1x15 is much cheaper than 2x12

In the end I'm probably going to pair it with Celestion TF-1020
Celestion TF1020 - 10
10" mid/bass drivers between ~150-200Hz and 2.5kHz and whatever kind of tweeters i like, above that

 

[turk 182]

However, room gain starts only beneath the lowest modal frequency which is in the order of 25hz for normal room size.

just how big is the average room in the Netherlands? aren't most room modes are between 100 to 300 hz ?

 

[Niclas L Seifen]

This is the best vented box i could come up with in WinISD


150L tuned to 23Hz with a 3.2In Ø x 5.36In port
Hits max excursion at 19Hz...

No closed box came close to this

 

[Jag768]

just how big is the average room in the Netherlands? aren't most room modes are between 100 to 300 hz ?

Not very big. But 8m long = 1st mode at 21hz, room gain starts <21Hz. Of course if your room is car size, then you do have significant gain

 

[planet10]

...room gain starts only beneath the lowest modal frequency which is in the order of 25hz for normal room size.

I think that that statement is misleading. If that was the case, my room would have no room gain… but it does.

I really dislike woofers that are tuned to sim flat & low and end up with a big bump at the bottom from not considering the room. The example in post #10 is a good example of ignoring the problem.

dave

 

[Jag768]

Big bump = probably room mode. I think there are better ways to deal with room modes than limiting extension.

 

[scottjoplin]

You are very unlikely to get quality bass in your room with one sub. If low frequency extension is your priority, build a sealed box, doesn't have to large, place it in the room corner and EQ it.

 

[turk 182]

do dimensions alone make for room gain?
while i acknowledge that the possibility of modes based on dimensions exists there's so many factors to satisfy in order for them to become a source of trouble,no?

 

[scottjoplin]

SL mentions modes and room gain here THOR - subwoofer

 

[GM]

Tuba HT
Anyone that have pro/cons?

But at the same time i want something that i could use to throw real parties up to 50-100 people...

From very dim memory it's tuned low, but very rolled off without corner loading.

For a frame of reference, a single 390HF in a basic single fold tapped horn [TH] is ~286 L net, so guessing ~20% higher once built and ~270 cm long folded in half.

~16 Hz/F6, > 115 dB/m 20-110 Hz/160 W/1pi [up against a solid wall].Not very powerful by today's standards, but really need a much higher Xmax, lower Vas & Qts driver to play this low, loud in a semi-reasonable size box.

GM

 

[planet10]

do dimensions alone make for room gain?

And how stiff the walls/boundaries are.

dave

 

[GM]

I think that that statement is misleading. If that was the case, my room would have no room gain… but it does.

I really dislike woofers that are tuned to sim flat & low and end up with a big bump at the bottom from not considering the room. The example in post #10 is a good example of ignoring the problem.

dave

It really is true as vehicle cabin gain proves, but larger rooms have a usable reverberant field that allows more LF reflections for a 'fuller', more natural sound field.

Yeah, the better the blend to the room, the better the performance, though in recent decades as more folks relate to their vehicle's audio performance due to increasing gridlock, not surprising they tend to prefer similar in their homes.

GM

 

[Niclas L Seifen]

From very dim memory it's tuned low, but very rolled off without corner loading.

For a frame of reference, a single 390HF in a basic single fold tapped horn [TH] is ~286 L net, so guessing ~20% higher once built and ~270 cm long folded in half.

~16 Hz/F6, > 115 dB/m 20-110 Hz/160 W/1pi [up against a solid wall].Not very powerful by today's standards, but really need a much higher Xmax, lower Vas & Qts driver to play this low, loud in a semi-reasonable size box.

GM

Well then, what drivers do you recommend me.
Eminence at least doesn't have any good offers


The setup will 80% sure be paired with 2x TF-1020/BT44S 2-way tops