comparing various Alpair's

[Scottmoose]

Bob has largely retired from audio and probably won't reply.

1/ He means he agrees with most things.
2/ Possibly will address some factors. Or possibly not. Depends on the specific cause.
3/ It means the drivers have a large amount of excursion, but they are not subwoofers and are not built like subwoofers: they are low-mass wideband drivers, so the user should use a modicum of common sense and not flog them to the maximum possible excursion on a constant basis, just as you would not flog any other low-mass wideband driver to the maximum possible excursion on a constant basis.
4/ No. Related, but not the same. The 755 physically decouples the outer parts of the cone at higher frequencies. EnABL's actual function on the transverse wave is a subject of long, unproductive and tedious debate, but a small amount of mass placed at specific modes will have a damping effect on them, even though that wasn't necessarily part of the original idea.

 

[slmnklyc]

Thanks Scottmoose for clarifications..
But second question still remain unanswered.
Can the Enabled treatment help the 500-550hz situation??

I was have high expectations from the alpair paper series(still I have)..
Somehow I think that they are modern interpretation of goodmans axiom 80(suspension with rods), maybe better..Or will be better with next generation mark audio drivers..

 

[Scottmoose]

Thanks Scottmoose for clarifications..
But second question still remain unanswered.
Can the Enabled treatment help the 500-550hz situation??

=

2/ Possibly will address some factors. Or possibly not. Depends on the specific cause.

 

[planet10]

Hi.
1-Can you give us better explanations about this "counts”?

A10p vrs A12p. The former goes lower, has better mids & tops, has greater DDR (ability to reproduce very small details). The A12p can have better dynamics due to the larger cone.

We are working on a low compromise system with A12pw/A10p MTM. BTW we prefer the A12pw as a FR over the A12p despite the lack of top end.

2-Bob Brines indicates ringing at about 500hz for all alpair paper series.

I don’t find it an issue when you listen to them.

And rutcho.com indicates weirdness at about 550hz for alpair 10p.

I have looked at lots of his measurements of drivers i know and i don’t know if i’d trust his results.

So your EnABLed treatment can be solution for this???

The treatments i do to the paper cone drivers is more than just EnABL but yes the net result seems to be a smoother driver with greater DDR. It makes a good driver even better.

3-While I was reading descriptions about all alpair paper series madisound,they say:

All of the Mark Audio drivers come with the suggestion that for best performance they be broken in slowly, and that they not be used to pound out the music. This is true of most full-ranges (if the FR does not have these restrictions, it usually has other problems). If you want to pound, then a FAST with helper woofer(s) is suggested.

we755a has circles on the cone.
Can these have same function with your EnABLed treatment??

Think of the rings as whizzer cones built into the main cone. EnABL can be applied to these with the same kinds of improvements.

dave

 

[slmnklyc]

Really thanks for comparison.Can you make similar comparison
between 10p - 7p??

Did you experience any rising treble from alpair 6p,7p,10p,12p?

Thanks..

 

[chrisb]

In short, the 10P is slightly more sensitive than the 7P and definitely goes lower in an appropriate enclosure.

By "rising" treble, if you mean such as is often seen / heard in some models of Fostex ( FExx6 series), or Lowthers, no.

Of the model sizes listed, I tend to prefer the A7.3 metal over the 7P, and find the 12P (as opposed to 12PW) to be quite listenable, but requiring of much larger enclosures than I can accommodate, and it still doesn't easily go as low as the 12PW or even 10s

 

[planet10]

Really thanks for comparison.Can you make similar comparison
between 10p - 7p??

There is a consistent kind of voicing difference between the A6.2p vrs A6.2m and the A10.3 (m) vrs A10p. The A7p does not share this. In the case of the A7x the rolls are reversed, the A7p very much in the stereotype metal cone camp, the metal cone A7.3 more like a paper cone.

Althou much a case of 6 of one, half-dozen of the other with the A6x and A10x my personal taste has me choosing the paper cone drivers, in the case of the A7x i much prefer the metal cone (my favourite driver).

dave

 

[slmnklyc]

Thanks for A7p comment..(this was really good one)
I also prefer paper cones..
The reason I asked the rising treble sound is the YouTube videos I watched includes A7P.It is difficult to describe.But they have shrill performance like a metal cone driver..(I know YouTube is not good way to judgement but..)
Did you mean this about your comment??

Some says 165mm gives sweet spot for full/wide rangers..
When I looked at spider difference between 10p and 12p, I think that 12p should/may have better sounding..After I read your comment,I start to think otherwise..

I prefer whizzerless full ranges.I already have supravox 165LB.I am looking for another possibility..

 

[chrisb]

Certainly, a You-Tube video is a good way to hear what an often poor resolution recording of something sounds like through your (computer?) system, but while the A7.3 metals have measurable resonances in the mid to upper ranges, the most shrill FR drivers I've every heard were either fully paper (Lowthers), or one of Fostex's hybrids of a few years ago.

The spiders / rear surrounds on the two Alpairs cited are only part of the story, and sooner or later you need to take a leap of faith and try to get your ears on a pair of something you've not heard before.

 

[slmnklyc]

I want to share two good video about alpair series:

Alpair 7v3 metal:
Markaudio Alpair 7 v3 + BATPURE - YouTube
Alpair 10p:
Mark Audio Alpair 10p + Morel CAT378 - YouTube