Newbie here regarding class D.
Got modest Nuforce STA-120 amp hooked up for last 3 days and it looks like I'm hooked....
Question is, when you get to those 200-500W modules is the jump in power affecting the perceived performance in a similar way to switching from conventional 50-80 AB amp to 300W behemoths? It is usually apparent even on relatively small speakers which actually don't need nor can handle all that power.
I don't mind manufacturers putting $300 modules in nice cases and sell the amp $3k retail through dealer network. Below that there is no viable way to make money.
I hear whispers of Mola, Mola D-amps being the cats meow
Got modest Nuforce STA-120 amp hooked up for last 3 days and it looks like I'm hooked....
Question is, when you get to those 200-500W modules is the jump in power affecting the perceived performance in a similar way to switching from conventional 50-80 AB amp to 300W behemoths? It is usually apparent even on relatively small speakers which actually don't need nor can handle all that power.
I don't mind manufacturers putting $300 modules in nice cases and sell the amp $3k retail through dealer network. Below that there is no viable way to make money.
I hear whispers of Mola, Mola D-amps being the cats meow
The "twost " being traditional toroid based PSU? I got this new amp for the cost of shipping 2 years ago because the owner said it was DOA. Being an idiot I checked the amp and it had 24V dc on the output and confirmed that the amp is indeed DOA and put it back on the box " for future repair attempt" I tripped over the box three days ago while cleaning the closet and decided to take a look . Nothing looked bad inside and power Mosfets and transistors looked good. It downed on me that there may be an output cap holding a charge....To make a long story short I put it into service driving MBL311E monitors and eh, uhh concluded myself deaf like bolt because I actually like the thing quite a bit. Now I wonder if I buy those $300 Ice modules will I kiss Mola Mola Kaluga performance ....?
They are allowed to think so but just think how many years it took to improve class A and AB. Just look at MA12070 to see recent developments.
I wouldn't focus too much on price, brand name and what owners think, class D is still being improved.
I wouldn't focus too much on price, brand name and what owners think, class D is still being improved.
By what standard/measure do they fall short? Purifi, Hypex, Orchard, Atmasphere and others by any objective measure already perform as good or better than the best performing class whatever amps. Subjectively, hoards of people rave about them. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but it seems so....90's.....
Oh the 90s when the thd wars were dying out and the cult of the SINAD had not yet risen from the ashes, a glorious time when distortion could be harmonious, let us drink to it….
People rave about anything ...cheaper and spicier it is, more raves it receives. In this hobby everybody is a lonely island although less bright people like to "belong" to some circle like A class circle , D class circle , McIntosh circle etc.
I see that class D appeals to people who like bright open spaces (the case of Bruno Purifi ) , and clean, clear "ordnung" and the first thing after sex is a run to the shower. Nothing wrong with that . Personally I like a little bit of dirt , dark stuffed spaces full of clutter , sweat and blood, thick molasses and some distortion too and noise . Always quite hated the alien sound of High End systems but there is no denying that it can be very attractive short term . Kind of like an empty headed trophy wife who disinfects herself hourly
I see that class D appeals to people who like bright open spaces (the case of Bruno Purifi ) , and clean, clear "ordnung" and the first thing after sex is a run to the shower. Nothing wrong with that . Personally I like a little bit of dirt , dark stuffed spaces full of clutter , sweat and blood, thick molasses and some distortion too and noise . Always quite hated the alien sound of High End systems but there is no denying that it can be very attractive short term . Kind of like an empty headed trophy wife who disinfects herself hourly
Good metaphors. Some would probably say class D is no sex at all so no need to shower 🙂
I just wanted to express that new technologies are developed as everyone wants a piece of the market. It already has won the market so now the wrinkles are being ironed out. It is simply too young to be mature already. Given the very good performance it matures quite fast. Even those that don't like newer technology can not deny that many sound simply excellent. I was one of those guys that thought it would never reach the quality level of class A/AB. Well, wrong thoughts. It can sound as clean or dirty as older stuff. Efficiency still improves, feedback systems still change, volume control in FDA class D is being improved. Exciting developments if you are open to it. FDA class D will be the winner probably and this for sure in standard consumer stuff like TVs , cheap Bluetooth/wireless audio. The future for analog input/output separates is bleak.
A point of criticism is that manufacturers seem to become dependent what the IC/module manufacturers develop so diversity will be less. Just look at Icepower modules as used in various devices. The worldwide lack of technical people will not help.
When I compare recent cheap class D amplifiers to older mid class AB amplifiers I know enough. All useless debate as time goes on and it will be harder to find discrete parts as production will end. Give it 10 years and discrete power transistors will be like ECC83 and TDA1541A are today. Grumpy grey men will then speak highly of the merits of old parts just like they do today. High chance that the first class D amplifiers with TA2024 then will be cherished. "That used to be quality!" 😀
I just wanted to express that new technologies are developed as everyone wants a piece of the market. It already has won the market so now the wrinkles are being ironed out. It is simply too young to be mature already. Given the very good performance it matures quite fast. Even those that don't like newer technology can not deny that many sound simply excellent. I was one of those guys that thought it would never reach the quality level of class A/AB. Well, wrong thoughts. It can sound as clean or dirty as older stuff. Efficiency still improves, feedback systems still change, volume control in FDA class D is being improved. Exciting developments if you are open to it. FDA class D will be the winner probably and this for sure in standard consumer stuff like TVs , cheap Bluetooth/wireless audio. The future for analog input/output separates is bleak.
A point of criticism is that manufacturers seem to become dependent what the IC/module manufacturers develop so diversity will be less. Just look at Icepower modules as used in various devices. The worldwide lack of technical people will not help.
When I compare recent cheap class D amplifiers to older mid class AB amplifiers I know enough. All useless debate as time goes on and it will be harder to find discrete parts as production will end. Give it 10 years and discrete power transistors will be like ECC83 and TDA1541A are today. Grumpy grey men will then speak highly of the merits of old parts just like they do today. High chance that the first class D amplifiers with TA2024 then will be cherished. "That used to be quality!" 😀
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Which is really sad...lm3886 never performed like tda1541 and I could compare them in the exact same setup...while ecc83 in luxman cl34 phono preamp beats every other low noise tube in any phono preamp at 0.5mA of anode current through its widespread downsides like lower gm which translates to lower attack on dusty records thus way less transients in active feedback topologies right out of the batch.
What most praised audio componrnts never lack is coherence and coherence is obtained through many recipees.
It is not sad. Out with the old and in with the new! It is just human emotions ... nostalgia/melancholia.
No one is sad when a new baby is born, is it? Of course it helps when the baby is beautiful but the saying here is: "ugly babies will be beautiful grown ups".
No one is sad when a new baby is born, is it? Of course it helps when the baby is beautiful but the saying here is: "ugly babies will be beautiful grown ups".
What do you mean? Not ready for what? Class-D is at least equal in sound quality to Class- AB and Class-D is getting better all the time. Class-D is generally more complex than AB, but that doesn't seem to be a significant stumbling block in modern builds. It's very quickly replacing Class-AB in all sorts of areas.
It's true that in the beginning, Stan had the electronics training and Paul was more the marketing/promo guy who picked up the tech along the way. I did not begrudge him that; I was making a similar transition from musician/recording engineer. I highly doubt Paul would say anything to intentionally deceive. He's as personable, kind, and honest a guy as you'll find.
IMHO I mean more or less the same. No native english speaker, remember?!
“Getting better” -> not ready yet, still improving
I don't... given his age and the amount of people he met in the audio domain during the years.
While he might be convinced himself by what he says in general I'm pretty sure he knows where he's wrong or at least inexact.Everybody knows that deep inside.
I met a few highly qualified engineers telling BS and using their pedigree to consolidate a completely fake standpoint bashing at other's personal history.Why wouldn't a less knoledgeable person do that?
I'm living in a country where universities SELL fake PHD titles to guys who never finished a highschool.Two years ago a guy who didn't have even a true highschool diploma got to be the head of the personal
background integrity verification department of the Romanian Secret Service.He faked his highschool diploma , then bought his university diploma, then his PHD and got to check other's background inside the Secret Service from the no 1 top position in the romanian government..How the hell he even got there in the first place?Who checked him?
We have now a military general as Prime minister who faked his PHD and now disolved all the authorities who could check his background too.
Well simillar things happen here with engineers, medical doctors, university teachers, etc...We have about 30 % of the 30+ years population having a fake university diploma accessing governmental jobs ...If they go outside Romania and try to get a similar job they can't prove they know even basic math skills needed to be a cashier at Lidl stores...
I don't trust anyone telling outright BS! And I don't use a translator to write in english although I have no official qualification in basically anything of what I did in the last 20 years.
I've been wrong about a lot of things in the past and I still am , but I try to learn from those who trll me I'm wrong.Marketing people NEVER admit they're wrong on anything no matter how weak their arguments are and they always have an explanation for everything.
Tell me the name of a single audio "guru" of this fake audiophile trends who ever mentioned Patt Quilter or Kenwood past designs as an inspiration for anything!
You know...in the electronics world 99.99% of the electronics emgineers never heard of BOMEM while BOMEM was the first commercial electrical company in the world selling the first electrical generator, making the first thermoelectric plant in the world , is responsible for at least 50% of nuclear plants real time control electronics and made the Hubble and other orbital telescopes interferometer and all the electronics attached to it. Bomem is part of ABB for some time now
yet tell me when it was the last time you applied to a job at Bomem ?
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OK dreamth, please arrange a PhD Electrical Engineering for me. Just name your price. I am already quite experienced in telling BS so that aspect is fine.
I find class D to be extremely faithful to the input signal. I like that. All the way form my first B&O ASP1000 when they where released and now also nC400.
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