There's an explanation for everything 🙂
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Of course one should not listen to people that have a commercial interest and believe everything they say. The point of the message is always: "others don't know but we do and you need to buy our stuff". Plain and simple.
I repaired devices by PS Audio that were appallingly bad. Those were Chinese made but still.
I repaired devices by PS Audio that were appallingly bad. Those were Chinese made but still.
One other thing I can say about the ICE modules that I had, they output was very clean in RF. The residual RF levels were low, and there were not many harmonics. And I don't remember a lot of stray RF around the PCB. I suppose that's due to good filtering, but since I don't know the filter topology, it's just a guess.
Well, for amplifiers other than Purifi Audio, with their special feedback compensating for inductor hysteresis, maybe it is "fatiguing". Unless of course your class D amp uses air-core inductors, which some of them do and I've read of improvement heard in replacing the generic parts with air core.
I myself have the bits in place to do that on at least the treble channels of one of my Zoudio amps. But removing / jumping across SMD parts in a layout that wasnt particularly designed for easy access leaves me with two things on the justification scale; "possibly ruin the amplifier" vs "maybe sounds a little bit better".
I myself have the bits in place to do that on at least the treble channels of one of my Zoudio amps. But removing / jumping across SMD parts in a layout that wasnt particularly designed for easy access leaves me with two things on the justification scale; "possibly ruin the amplifier" vs "maybe sounds a little bit better".
Beads and/or inductors are often chosen too light rated in cheap devices.
Pano, the Icepower 50ASX2 I have used a few times were indeed relatively clean. They are superseded by more recent amplifiers though (that, you could have guessed, do emit EMI 🙂).
Pano, the Icepower 50ASX2 I have used a few times were indeed relatively clean. They are superseded by more recent amplifiers though (that, you could have guessed, do emit EMI 🙂).
Regardless of my personal class d opinion class d has been painted into a generic corner by ‘hi-end’ manufacturers like Paul using analog/tube input to ‘fix’ perceived issues and not bothering to develop their own class d output but just oem some ICE modules and then claim their mods are the key. I will concede after a rough start class d came back 30 years later and re-won the thd wars (or SINAD if u prefer, if wars happen in a glass bubble)) now we can debate how much that matters…class d may not get out of the corner it’s painted in before the next big thing is upon us….
Message to 5thElement, dreamth, jherbert, and mkane77g,
I started this thread with what I believe to be a relative and important subject to many of the readers here. Namely, do Class D amplifiers have a fatiguing sound.
Now there certainly can be disagreement on the subject, and Paul McGowan’s views are not necessarily shared by everyone else.
But those of you mentioned above never even attempt to discuss the subject at hand. Instead you simply use this thread as a means to berate Paul.
If you have something worthwhile to contribute on the subject then by all means do so.
Just attacking another individual with your opinions about him is a complete waste of your time and ours as well.
In other words, stick to the subject.
I started this thread with what I believe to be a relative and important subject to many of the readers here. Namely, do Class D amplifiers have a fatiguing sound.
Now there certainly can be disagreement on the subject, and Paul McGowan’s views are not necessarily shared by everyone else.
But those of you mentioned above never even attempt to discuss the subject at hand. Instead you simply use this thread as a means to berate Paul.
If you have something worthwhile to contribute on the subject then by all means do so.
Just attacking another individual with your opinions about him is a complete waste of your time and ours as well.
In other words, stick to the subject.
No some of the recent ones absolutely don't. The early ones often had that but times have changed and technology has improved.
The discussion that they are fatiguing is however quite fatigiuing. It is often about the same story as tube guys stating solid state amplifiers sound harsh. Time goes on and it is sometimes good to compare older class D with recent class D ones (and class A/AB of course). "Believing" a certain topology instead of keeping an open mind to new developments is one of the reasons. Since class D is here to stay and many companies want a piece of the cake it will be even better.
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That's one of the ones I worked with, along with the 125ASX2 and some bigger mono-blocks. Which I still had them.
Sold all of them, some Chi-Fi amps are better but they're way less complete. The built in PSU is very handy and they are easy to build in a casing.
One board design, almost can't go wrong.
One board design, almost can't go wrong.
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I suspect a lot of what I liked about the the ASX2 boards was the built in PSU. It was right there on the board with the amp and designed for the amp. That seemed to give them a very direct, strong sound. At least that was my hypothesis. 🙂
I think so too. One board designs have many positive features but apparently not many like it as modular approach is done more often (education perhaps?). It saves a lot of wiring spaghetti and one can make small amplifiers which simply is practical. If they would have asked me I would have added volume control to the board 🙂
Now and then I read here of defective ones but I have never had one failing. Just good amplifiers and nice to the ears.
Now and then I read here of defective ones but I have never had one failing. Just good amplifiers and nice to the ears.
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Sorry for my un-thoughtfulness. I have 6 different class D amps in this house. I didn't stuff the boards, I bought finished modules, added PS and rca's. Inexpensive sound on the cheap. The sound is not fatiguing but it's very different from everything else we have here. We use them when the heat is hot. +95°. Not our favorites but they come in handy when we want music for a short period of time.
My 125 died when I dropped it on a concrete floor. 🙁 It wouldn't even oscillate after that. I searched and searched for the fault, but never found it. Before that, it was good as gold.
A reliable car also will fail when it meets a concrete pole 🙂 Let's stay on topic or we'll be reported.
I thought the topic was problems with Class-D amps, but that's not quite it, is it?
In the video Paul says "The output filter is very aggressive in a Class-D amplifier..." "and it turns out that that filter, which causes massive phase shift, is primarily the culprit behind it [fatigue]"
I just haven't seen the aggressive output filters he mentions, and don't remember massive phase shift. But maybe he is not looking at the same amps that I am.
In the video Paul says "The output filter is very aggressive in a Class-D amplifier..." "and it turns out that that filter, which causes massive phase shift, is primarily the culprit behind it [fatigue]"
I just haven't seen the aggressive output filters he mentions, and don't remember massive phase shift. But maybe he is not looking at the same amps that I am.
You have in the prinscreen of what you started this topic with...and I can only see a title about some McGowan comments and an youtube video attached to the first empty post which is full of crap...that video by itself left a lot more space for making fun than what I did.
