thylantyr said:The Karma {Electra} speaker looks ugly to me
🙂
I didn't know Carmen Electra was into DIY!!
😀
sdclc126 said:
Why you are argiung when you don´t know what you´r talking about is above me.
This is what you wrote;
"Perhaps the Kharma uses a modified proprietary design, but the driver is available and genrally retails for a cool $2,600 a pop."
And it is still not true. It is NOT available and it WOULD retail for a lot more as does the 30mm
version.
I do not know any details of the motor on the Kharma units (neither do you) but the cone and chasis is totally different from those offered by Accuton on the open market.
End of discussion.
/Peter
girlfriend speaking........
as many of you dont know it is ultimatly my job to do the grunt work for his wild ideas....however i want one for myself now....of course i wouldnt have it in my home unless it was beautiful...so we've made a bet...he really thinks he can out do my box making skills...he has his heart set on that crazy round cabinet which i personally think is impossible, my job is to copy the avalon eidolon(cabinet only) and if mine looks better he will fork out the cash for the speakers that go with it... my problem is that the box is very complicated and i have no clue what is on the inside...there was an older thread about a clone of another speaker made by avalon and mention of written out plans for the construction of the box does anyone know where i can get my hands on those?
as many of you dont know it is ultimatly my job to do the grunt work for his wild ideas....however i want one for myself now....of course i wouldnt have it in my home unless it was beautiful...so we've made a bet...he really thinks he can out do my box making skills...he has his heart set on that crazy round cabinet which i personally think is impossible, my job is to copy the avalon eidolon(cabinet only) and if mine looks better he will fork out the cash for the speakers that go with it... my problem is that the box is very complicated and i have no clue what is on the inside...there was an older thread about a clone of another speaker made by avalon and mention of written out plans for the construction of the box does anyone know where i can get my hands on those?
Cloning the Exquisite
To AudiophileNoob,
With all due respect to cowanrg who is a very experienced DIYer; it is possible to achieve such a project it’s just that it takes a great deal of time researching, planning and testing to pull it off. I’m in the middle ( I think ) of a massively complex project with a great deal more to do still it SHALL be achieved. You have to be in it for the long haul and not become discouraged with the inevitable setbacks.
As to the cabinet construction; it’s not so much the complexity of a particular design as it is making the whole system work as intended. Whatever time spent on the cabinet be prepared to spend at least as much on the crossover unless you have the specific circuit used and the “exact” drivers, don’t assume that they are the same as what is offered with standard off the shelf product. Even with the same model driver the manufacturer may have treated it or specified modifications to the specifications from the OEM and the crossover circuit used will then need to be tweaked to use the standard drivers. You will not be able to purchase any such proprietary driver from the OEM due to restrictive sales contracts, no 3rd party sales authorized. So be prepared to make modifications in your design to account for the standard parts that are available to the DIY audio community. I certainly wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, just be prepared for a very lengthy project.
P.S. the curved designs are not bent but CNC milled out of sheets that are then laminated into a block with constrained layer damping, I believe there are a few sites on the net showing this technique also shown in some advanced woodworking books. No access to a CNC, no problem, just build some jigs and use a router you’ll have to do some practice cuts first to get the technique down before you cut the more expensive materials; also measure, measure, measure then cut.
In conclusion you really need to research as much as possible first. It’s amazing how many cross-references to other hobbies and industries one can find in relation to our hobby. Just go researching polymers, ceramics, epoxy laminates and acoustics, even roofing, textile and industrial gaskets, long fiber wool, bitumen substitutes, industrial vibration control and adhesives etc.
DIY is whatever one wants to define it as...
To AudiophileNoob,
With all due respect to cowanrg who is a very experienced DIYer; it is possible to achieve such a project it’s just that it takes a great deal of time researching, planning and testing to pull it off. I’m in the middle ( I think ) of a massively complex project with a great deal more to do still it SHALL be achieved. You have to be in it for the long haul and not become discouraged with the inevitable setbacks.
As to the cabinet construction; it’s not so much the complexity of a particular design as it is making the whole system work as intended. Whatever time spent on the cabinet be prepared to spend at least as much on the crossover unless you have the specific circuit used and the “exact” drivers, don’t assume that they are the same as what is offered with standard off the shelf product. Even with the same model driver the manufacturer may have treated it or specified modifications to the specifications from the OEM and the crossover circuit used will then need to be tweaked to use the standard drivers. You will not be able to purchase any such proprietary driver from the OEM due to restrictive sales contracts, no 3rd party sales authorized. So be prepared to make modifications in your design to account for the standard parts that are available to the DIY audio community. I certainly wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, just be prepared for a very lengthy project.
P.S. the curved designs are not bent but CNC milled out of sheets that are then laminated into a block with constrained layer damping, I believe there are a few sites on the net showing this technique also shown in some advanced woodworking books. No access to a CNC, no problem, just build some jigs and use a router you’ll have to do some practice cuts first to get the technique down before you cut the more expensive materials; also measure, measure, measure then cut.
In conclusion you really need to research as much as possible first. It’s amazing how many cross-references to other hobbies and industries one can find in relation to our hobby. Just go researching polymers, ceramics, epoxy laminates and acoustics, even roofing, textile and industrial gaskets, long fiber wool, bitumen substitutes, industrial vibration control and adhesives etc.
DIY is whatever one wants to define it as...
The Avalon Eidolon Standard/Diamond would probably be the "easier" to clone. Partly due to easier cabinet construction and I also think the drivers actually are of the shelf and available to all.
But then again, as other have said, why clone..
It would be hard to get all details about the interior of the speaker, the crossover and so on so forth and therefore would not be a clone but a facsimile. Better (IMO I beter add) to get inspiration from good designs and cook your own soup since the big challenge will be in the crossover anyway.
/Peter
But then again, as other have said, why clone..
It would be hard to get all details about the interior of the speaker, the crossover and so on so forth and therefore would not be a clone but a facsimile. Better (IMO I beter add) to get inspiration from good designs and cook your own soup since the big challenge will be in the crossover anyway.
/Peter
I don't think I could purchase a pair of speakers from a company this says things like this:
"The resistors used in the Grand Exquisite are a development of Kharma and represent the ultimate in freedom from any graininess with negligible induction. All Exquisites use the recently developed Kharma Connectors, guaranteeing a negligible loss of information.
The result of these new boundaries is the extended capability to deliver a musical emotional experience not yet known"
A musical emotional experience not yet known. Wow.
"The resistors used in the Grand Exquisite are a development of Kharma and represent the ultimate in freedom from any graininess with negligible induction. All Exquisites use the recently developed Kharma Connectors, guaranteeing a negligible loss of information.
The result of these new boundaries is the extended capability to deliver a musical emotional experience not yet known"
A musical emotional experience not yet known. Wow.
Wow what?
A musical experience never known before is what people use to have when they stumble onto this kind of gear the first time..
but I do agree that Kharma (like most high end companys except B&W) tend to be borderline about their choise of words in their marketing. 🙂
/Peter
A musical experience never known before is what people use to have when they stumble onto this kind of gear the first time..
but I do agree that Kharma (like most high end companys except B&W) tend to be borderline about their choise of words in their marketing. 🙂
/Peter
So cfb and I agree on the cabinet construction. If you make a template and cut the MDF layer by layer, it will be time consuming, messy and moderately expensive, but not that difficult. the layers might not come out perfect, but on the outside the can be sanded once they are glued and if it is a bit irregular on the inside- well that a feature not a bug 😉 because it makes the inside more random.
When I decided which speaker to make, I narrowed it very quickly down to designs that I had enough information on to build or clone.
If you have someone's crossover circuit for the thing, it will probably be better than what you will come up with on your own at first, then you can spend time trying to develop your own version.
So either you get the owner to let you dissasemble his speakers to see what the crossovers are, or you find published information or you make it up. The last 2 options are not clones by any means though.
I believe that there is a website about cloning JMLab (Focal) Utopias with lots of information. If you can find this, AND if it has crossover info, this might be a very good choice for you because it uses a very similar tweeter (made by Focal) to the Wilsons and is a very expensive and high end design.
The latest JMLab speakers have a new tweeter this year that isn't available to the public, so you would need to find last years model , but I'll bet somewhere some store still has them.
Later if they make it available, you could upgrade to the new tweeter.
Also, you haven't even heard this speaker that you are proposing to clone?Since you have discovered that you have preferences, I would think that you would consider that risky..
When I decided which speaker to make, I narrowed it very quickly down to designs that I had enough information on to build or clone.
If you have someone's crossover circuit for the thing, it will probably be better than what you will come up with on your own at first, then you can spend time trying to develop your own version.
So either you get the owner to let you dissasemble his speakers to see what the crossovers are, or you find published information or you make it up. The last 2 options are not clones by any means though.
I believe that there is a website about cloning JMLab (Focal) Utopias with lots of information. If you can find this, AND if it has crossover info, this might be a very good choice for you because it uses a very similar tweeter (made by Focal) to the Wilsons and is a very expensive and high end design.
The latest JMLab speakers have a new tweeter this year that isn't available to the public, so you would need to find last years model , but I'll bet somewhere some store still has them.
Later if they make it available, you could upgrade to the new tweeter.
Also, you haven't even heard this speaker that you are proposing to clone?Since you have discovered that you have preferences, I would think that you would consider that risky..
Variac said:
AudiophileNoob,
IMHO Variac is right. I think this is the reason you're choosing such random speaker projects. You haven't decided what kind of sound you really want from your project. If you just go and clone some high-end boutique speaker you'll proabably be dissapointed. Each speaker reflects what a particular designer thinks is the most important part of music reproduction especially the real expensive "signature" speakers. Looking at your list I see 3 distinct "types" of speakers -- Line array, ESL, multi-way boxed -- each of which creates a totally different type of listening experience.
--Chris
"nothing to look at here, let's just move along......... "
No more posts regarding that tweeter, or peoples feelings or knowledge about it. If this is ignored you will be punished.
No more posts regarding that tweeter, or peoples feelings or knowledge about it. If this is ignored you will be punished.
Just sit back and relax😀
http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=22976.255
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/Soup.html
Avalon cloning is a rather widespread disease in The Netherlands as you will have noticed – on the HTForum you can find some severe cases. 😉 The craftsmanship is superior and astonishing, but don’t expect you can clone the superior sound as well.... I never heard one anyway.
Never seen any attempt on cloning Kharma’s. As a matter of fact, I second Pan's opinion on the reasons why. Kharma’s designer Charles van Oostrum hardly uses off the shelf parts. Besides that, his crossovers are widely acknowledged as superior to Avalon and to my ears resulting in a superior sound too, but cloning them is impossible because they are completely encapsulated.
ATB
Lourens
http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=22976.255
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/Soup.html
Avalon cloning is a rather widespread disease in The Netherlands as you will have noticed – on the HTForum you can find some severe cases. 😉 The craftsmanship is superior and astonishing, but don’t expect you can clone the superior sound as well.... I never heard one anyway.
Never seen any attempt on cloning Kharma’s. As a matter of fact, I second Pan's opinion on the reasons why. Kharma’s designer Charles van Oostrum hardly uses off the shelf parts. Besides that, his crossovers are widely acknowledged as superior to Avalon and to my ears resulting in a superior sound too, but cloning them is impossible because they are completely encapsulated.
ATB
Lourens
Pan said:
Indeed.
I've been listening for Avalon speakers for some 15 years, from time to time, and it's always a rewarding experience.
I can't say the same for more than a very few commercial designs (that I've heard).
Pan said:
I can't agree with you on this, Peter...
To B&W, every speaker, from the cheapest one, has 'Nautilus technology'.
😀
PS: some B&W tweeters sound really nasty...
DIY_newbie said:
LOL... I haven't planned anything...
I'm just throwing out ideas to get feedback...
I'm more or less just going to get test drivers and go from there.... unless I get some crazy isoteric design idea these kind of threads will be kept to a minimum
Lourens said:
be careful not to overly diefy their crossovers.... as avalon does make a fully active system that supposedly eats the Eidolon for lunch...
😉
people are just scared of crossovers 😉
Audiophilenoob said:
I would be carefull about getting drivers to test before you decide on what type of speakers you want to build. The type of driver you choose for open-baffle vs sealed box vs vented box have very different parameters and will sound totally different in their preffered alignment than otherwise..
Call me biased but I would point you towards open-baffled TMWW setups. To my ear they sound the most natural especially if you can get a wide-range mid that will play most of the vocals.
--Chris
DIY_newbie said:
well I like them all... I do of course plan to go and listen to these first... obviously... I'm researching about tweeter prospects
(Quote edited)
maybe instead of getting feedback you should just find something you want to accomplish and go for it 🙂 i did that a few years ago. everyone told me not to and that i would be nuts, but i didnt listen. now i get about 1gb of traffic a month from my site.
defy convention and go for it.
maybe instead of getting feedback you should just find something you want to accomplish and go for it 🙂 i did that a few years ago. everyone told me not to and that i would be nuts, but i didnt listen. now i get about 1gb of traffic a month from my site.
defy convention and go for it.
DIY_newbie said:
I know what kind of speakers I want to build...
a amazing SQ 3-way design.... but not a line array
cowanrg said:
lol my comment was out of love 😀
I'm still researching what I want exactly... I'm not trying to jump into anything that's why I'm gauging tweeter replacement options if I choose to clone these... the ESL design is still a contendor as well
I very well might use the Avalon cabinet even if I like completely different drivers from the ones they use... or not.... I might go OB or not... I'm all for building several designs to find what I like...
- Status
- Not open for further replies.