Hi,
Abslolutely not in all cases.
Frequency response doesn't tell the whole story, not by a long shot.
Oh no, no way....Sorry.
Try the following test on a multi-way passive x-over:
Assuming you have ordinary non-polar caps in the x-over in series with the signal in the x-over, replace the one(s) in the tweeter section with good quality polypropylenes and notice how the speaker all of a sudden sounds unbalanced. (Bright)
Mostly, I spoke for what I think up myself or can at least try at home after reading about it somewhere.
Something that does make sense and is easily tried at home without the need to buy anything out of the ordinary is the green feltpen, for instance.
Tiptoe style cones can be great to experiment with as well and don't cost an arm and a leg either.
There must be at least a few dozen of things that are easily tried
and don't demand a financial effort, just some elbow grease.
Ever tried solid core instead of multistrand wire?
Magnet wire instead of PVC insulated wire?
The list is endless....
I wish I still had my copies of the long defunct Hifi-Answers, it had really interesting sections on just this kind of tweaks.
There are charlatans in every business surely but they usually don't last for long. In the meantime it's wise to ask around what others think before sending any green ones their way.
No problem.
Cheers,😉
Abslolutely not in all cases.
Frequency response doesn't tell the whole story, not by a long shot.
Oh no, no way....Sorry.
Try the following test on a multi-way passive x-over:
Assuming you have ordinary non-polar caps in the x-over in series with the signal in the x-over, replace the one(s) in the tweeter section with good quality polypropylenes and notice how the speaker all of a sudden sounds unbalanced. (Bright)
Mostly, I spoke for what I think up myself or can at least try at home after reading about it somewhere.
Something that does make sense and is easily tried at home without the need to buy anything out of the ordinary is the green feltpen, for instance.
Tiptoe style cones can be great to experiment with as well and don't cost an arm and a leg either.
There must be at least a few dozen of things that are easily tried
and don't demand a financial effort, just some elbow grease.
Ever tried solid core instead of multistrand wire?
Magnet wire instead of PVC insulated wire?
The list is endless....
I wish I still had my copies of the long defunct Hifi-Answers, it had really interesting sections on just this kind of tweaks.
There are charlatans in every business surely but they usually don't last for long. In the meantime it's wise to ask around what others think before sending any green ones their way.
No problem.
Cheers,😉
It is so surprising that you admit that actually finding out that you could be wrong about some of your findings would be so pyschologically devastating, but it really is consistent with your actions and prior statements.
I really don't understand why you would rather go on fooling yourself (and others) instead of actually getting to the truth. If you started doing some scientific testing, you may have some findings that cannot be detected, but in the long run you will get taken much more seriously.
Given the large number of things that you have tried, at least a few of them may be good. I am ever so envious of your audio budget, I really wish I could be trying as many things as yo do.
geewhizbang said:
I once made a pair of super interconnects, which I was very pleased with untill I made a blind test, and found that they were just the same as the previous set. Sometimes I wish I had never made that test, those interconnects were soooo great sounding prior to the test 😉 I didn't try to sell them prior to the blind test though.
Magura🙂
geewhizbang said:
I will suggest you take this advice yourself
Peter Daniel said:
You were on Peter's case because he hadn't done any testing, then said you couldn't afford the parts.
So he's offered to send you some parts so _you_ can do some testing
geewhizbang said:
Peter has made at least part of that possible with his generous offer, yet you have glossed over it, ignored the offer and continue to be critical of him.
The ball is in your court - either have him send you the parts and go from there or get off of his case.
Regards
Ken L
geewhizbang said:
You are very selective in your posting. you don't bother with follows ups on the things people ask you.
If you read my disclaimer, in a same post, you would actually notice that I don't admit anything, I just take some possibilities into account.
And that's actually the biggest difference between us: you don't even know other possibilities might exist.
geewhizbang said:
That is quite interesting reflection.
The guy admits that he has no budget for buying expensive components for testing, yet he wastes 2 days of everybodys time for actually arguing about the sound of those components.
This is like a journey (inside your mind) into a twilight zone 😉
I will be building something shortly. I expect to be getting a settlement from Microsoft any day now (really, not kidding). It should be enough to pay off some credit cards and let me build both a sub and a new amplifier. I may also build an amp for the sub, but I may just use a good plate amp for that.
You betcha I will be testing tweaks on these things very carefully before I make any claims.
Yes, the egg is dripping down my face, but I am also not claiming anything that appears to have no physical cause, either.
This is why I have cited other people that HAVE done tests, or posted pages from authoritative web links when I was making many of my points. I don't have to have done the tests myself, there is nothing wrong with citing other works.
I haven't been making anything up, btw.
You betcha I will be testing tweaks on these things very carefully before I make any claims.
Yes, the egg is dripping down my face, but I am also not claiming anything that appears to have no physical cause, either.
This is why I have cited other people that HAVE done tests, or posted pages from authoritative web links when I was making many of my points. I don't have to have done the tests myself, there is nothing wrong with citing other works.
I haven't been making anything up, btw.
I missed that part about Peter offering me some parts to test. If so, it is a very generous offer.
I want the Great Randi's money. If I were to identify the Brilliant Pebble effect, in my listening room, 10 times out of 10 tries could I rightfully claim the money. Is he good for it? How legitimate is this guy anyway? From what I have read at his website it would seem that to qualify for this offer the phenomena in question must be of a paranormal variety. It is implied at audio sites that products like Shakti Stones and Brilliant Pebbles would be eligible. Is this the truth? Or is it a disingenuous contrivance?
I have read the first 14 pages of this thread thinking I would stay up late and read it all, and then I realized there are 83 pages total. Are the pages from 15 onward redundant? What I have learned from these 14 pages is that John Curl is the most reasonable poster on this thread and I like him a lot. Also this SY guy is gracious, kind and discerning, perfect qualities for a moderator IMO.
Well, time for bed now. Good night.
P.S. I will have some Shakti Hallographs in about a week. I will let you all know if they are worthwhile or not...wait just a second here, even if I think they are worthwhile, how would I ever possibly prove it?
I have read the first 14 pages of this thread thinking I would stay up late and read it all, and then I realized there are 83 pages total. Are the pages from 15 onward redundant? What I have learned from these 14 pages is that John Curl is the most reasonable poster on this thread and I like him a lot. Also this SY guy is gracious, kind and discerning, perfect qualities for a moderator IMO.
Well, time for bed now. Good night.
P.S. I will have some Shakti Hallographs in about a week. I will let you all know if they are worthwhile or not...wait just a second here, even if I think they are worthwhile, how would I ever possibly prove it?
The Great Randi is in the business of not paying the mil. I have the feeling that he's very good at not doing it 🙂 Rather consult a lawyer first.
They have been redundant from page 1 onwards. There has been a ton of threads fighting over these issues, yet no one's mind has been changed as a result. Discussions invariably degrade into issues of semantics and plain ad hominem attacks.
Double blind test, the detailed procedure of which both you and the examining skeptic agree upon. Post said procedure here for discussion first. Check out Jon Risch's coomments at Audioasylum on how a blind test might be conducted to deal with some of the issues that detractors raise.
Prune said:
Perfect, where do you recommend I post for discussion?
Now, I'm really going to bed.
Once again, no logical argument is contained here, just attacks on the integrity of someone with a dissenting view.
The Great Randi doesn't need to worry about paying up, as he full well knows that he won't ever need to, as the crackpots' claims are empty -- I wouldn't have donated to his organization if I thought otherwise.
Prune said:
Cool, this is real? Is a product like Brilliant Pebbles eligible? It wouldn't seem to be based on the offer I read, but people seem to push it out there as a dare quite frequently. Are they qualified to speak for the Randi person?
OK, I didn't actually go to bed when I said I would. I am now though.
I'm under the impression that Randi's offer only stands for claims of paranormal abilities. I'm not sure that these audio issues qualify, but when I think of, say, the Quantum Purifiers, I wonder...
I was suggesting a blind test organized by the diyAudio community, using procedures agreed upon in this forum. I'd be willing to contribute a donation towards such a thing, if I agree with the procedure (as I'm sure would be others here). Perhaps you should start a new thread (post link here). Instead of the usual meetups, why not have a blind testing meetup?
I was suggesting a blind test organized by the diyAudio community, using procedures agreed upon in this forum. I'd be willing to contribute a donation towards such a thing, if I agree with the procedure (as I'm sure would be others here). Perhaps you should start a new thread (post link here). Instead of the usual meetups, why not have a blind testing meetup?
Why is it that you people have to attack these tweaks and mods, without knowing ANYTHING about them? What is your payoff?
For the record, the Brilliant Pebbles are alleged to damp acoustic vibration. I have been linked to several websites that imply that this is for real. Have any of you actually learned ANYTHING about what you criticize?
I have known the designer for years, and he has a degree in physics, like I do, so it is easy for us to relate about this subject. What about the rest of you? Do you have the background necessary? If so, have you looked into this particular subject area? Get some facts folks, or at least try something, before trashing the component.
For the record, the Brilliant Pebbles are alleged to damp acoustic vibration. I have been linked to several websites that imply that this is for real. Have any of you actually learned ANYTHING about what you criticize?
I have known the designer for years, and he has a degree in physics, like I do, so it is easy for us to relate about this subject. What about the rest of you? Do you have the background necessary? If so, have you looked into this particular subject area? Get some facts folks, or at least try something, before trashing the component.
Mr Curl, I hope that you are not referring to me. I've only mentioned one product here, that in my mind stands out.
Who cares if this person has a degree in a hard science? So did Fred Hoyle, yet he persisted pushing his Steady State view of cosmology despite the undeniable evidence to the contrary. The supposed method of action of a component or gadget, even if there is one, is irrelevant in the context I'm discussing. What is relevant is whether a difference is demonstrable, or just psychological bias. While I agree with whoever said (SE was it?) that if psychological bias is the cause, it still subjectively sounds better and the expense is thus worth it to some, this is a disservice to those who would not want to spend the money on a placebo.
Konnichiwa,
Surely you are aware of a variety of tests that show drastic electronic differences between various components (especially capacitors) and of the extant tests that showed that at least SOME of these are audible under bind conditions?
Actually, many are explainable by the laws of physics, but they are not explainable by the dogmatic religious position that all that is audible is measurable with a very limited set of tests (eg THD & FR).
Actually, you surely do not need the most excotic components to make tests. In many cases Peter (and others) show a grading of quality over a range of components and often those near the top of the table tend to be mostly high grade (but not excessively priced) industrial componentry. So, what you are claiming is a simple cop-out.
And there are reasons for that cop-out. You actually DONT WANT TO KNOW. You WANT things to be as you expect them to be, any intrusion of reality nonwithstanding.
Sayonara
geewhizbang said:
Surely you are aware of a variety of tests that show drastic electronic differences between various components (especially capacitors) and of the extant tests that showed that at least SOME of these are audible under bind conditions?
geewhizbang said:
Actually, many are explainable by the laws of physics, but they are not explainable by the dogmatic religious position that all that is audible is measurable with a very limited set of tests (eg THD & FR).
geewhizbang said:
Actually, you surely do not need the most excotic components to make tests. In many cases Peter (and others) show a grading of quality over a range of components and often those near the top of the table tend to be mostly high grade (but not excessively priced) industrial componentry. So, what you are claiming is a simple cop-out.
And there are reasons for that cop-out. You actually DONT WANT TO KNOW. You WANT things to be as you expect them to be, any intrusion of reality nonwithstanding.
Sayonara
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