Choosing between three mid drivers

[Toaster]

Nope, not the 130Z0. On relative output I suspect the spec. sheet figure for the power handling of the 10F is conservative, based on experience- but admittedly not on controlled measurements. Depending where you are in the UK Kev, I could lend you a pair of 10Fs and a pair of 100Z0s to try out.

 

[Toaster]

Good point Face, although since the system is using an active crossover gain may be available to compensate for sensitivity differences.

 

[Toaster]

On the 10Fs maximum output, this is interesting from Zaph's site.

 

[Face]

Just curious, what are you using to calculate maxium SPL/Frequency as the HM130Z0 only has an x-max of 2mm.

 

[Kev06]

Face, I'm using WinISD pro, though I'm no expert at it; for the HM130Z0 I'm getting a peak of around 0.656mm at 310hz, using a 4th order high pass at 300Hz in a sealed enclosure of 1.9L and at the rated power of 50w - giving me around 108dB (winISD has calculated its efficiency at 91.29dB; a tad less than the spec sheet).

For the SS 10F 8424G00 in the same scenario I'm getting around 0.5mm peak, and 99dB at its rated power of 15w - WinISD has calculated its efficiency at 87.75dB. If I go to 4x the rated power I get 105dB, but that makes me a bit nervous.

Have I got something wrong again?

Cheers
kev

 

[Greebster]

Ran a couple sims on the HM130Z0 driver and show if it's in a sealed box exceeds Xmax below ~175Hz @50w with a max spl of ~105dB/1w/1m. Next up was in a BR hitting Xmax 200Hz @50w with a spl of 109

 

[Kev06]

Thanks Toaster, it does look interesting, thanks also for the very kind offer; I'm in Derby, but also probably a long way from doing anything 'real' yet so we'll see where this thread takes me.

Regarding the power rating being conservative, I had an idea - I wonder if I'm completely wrong to consider that the 20dB 'headroom' suggested by the THX reference should be within the nominal power of the drivers. It seems a sensible amount for peaks, but possibly I should treat it as short term power (largely insignificant extra heating), and just ensure I have the headroom in the amp voltage and Xmax? It somewhat goes against my belt-and-braces nature but it would make many more drivers possible.

Cheers
kev

 

[Rixsta]

Hi, I have purchased the Audax HM130C0 (5.25”) and are using them in a 3 way setup and they sound superb actualy they sound superb without a crossover too when I was testing them. but for midrange they are lovely compared to my Dayton Rs52's

 

[Kev06]

Ran a couple sims on the HM130Z0 driver and show if it's in a sealed box exceeds Xmax below ~175Hz @50w with a max spl of ~105dB/1w/1m. Next up was in a BR hitting Xmax 200Hz @50w with a spl of 109

That seems odd, I must have something wrong then; with a 300hz 4th order high-pass my simulations never get much past half the Xmax. Without the filter though I've exceeded it below 230Hz. I'll have to check my parameters.

Cheers
Kev

 

[Kev06]

Hi, I have purchased the Audax HM130C0 (5.25”) and are using them in a 3 way setup and they sound superb actualy they sound superb without a crossover too when I was testing them. but for midrange they are lovely compared to my Dayton Rs52's

Thanks , thats good to know. Having poked around the forum a bit, it does seem to have its fans so definitely still on my short list.

Cheers
Kev

 

[Michael Chua]

Hi, I have purchased the Audax HM130C0 (5.25”) and are using them in a 3 way setup and they sound superb

I'll second that. I have it mated with the small AMT in a compact bookshelf. The HM130C0 vocal clarity is outstanding.

Regards
Mike

 

[Kev06]

Thanks very much, that sounds promising, then. Its looking like the HM130C0 may be ticking most of my boxes too..

Cheers
Kev

 

[Overkill Audio]

Audax upgraded to PHL

Hi Kev,

I have a pair of Audax HM170ZO drivers ( covering 80Hz to 1,800Hz with DEQX crossover and Eq) I used in a centre channel along with a Beyma TPL AMT tweeter, really lovely combination and I can highly recommend the Audax as great value for money.
I ran each Audax in 15 litres sealed volume, 18mm birch ply cabinets, asymmetric internal layout with damping compound on the walls & Twaron damping in the centre of each chamber.

However... http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1660_1670.pdf
The PHL are gobsmackingly waaaay better as dedicated mid range covering 300Hz to 3,000 Hz.
There is so much more to life like midrange performance than dispersion and THD measurements.
The PHL 's will fill your room with a glorious midrange far beyond the reach of any of the drivers mentioned so far in this thread....But they cost a lot more!!
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Derek.

 

[Kev06]

Many thanks Derek, thats reassuring for the Audax brand. I notice their website has been largely removed following a takeover, so hopefully they'll continue!

I've not considered PHL at all so far; did you find a supplier in the UK?

Thanks!
Kev

 

[Pallas]

So, I've been looking at the other drivers I can get; the Audax HM130Z0 5.25" looks most interesting - I hadn't realised the 'Z0' aerogel version is so different to the 'C0' carbon-fibre one that I'd short listed. The HM130Z0 easily gets me the SPL I want, has a low enough Fs and has at least a reasonable off axis performance for a 5.25". It seems to have a number of fans too, so I'm quite interested in this one - any thoughts?

Love the HM130Z0 for its size. It was the best small mid I had used/heard for about a dozen years. Today I'd go with the Scan Disco 10F instead, though. If the Audax were $20 and budget was a concern, I'd use it, but IMO the Disco is just a better driver. Better motor and better size for a 3-way (especially if you're not loading the tweeter in a waveguide).

As for some of the others on your list, in addition to using basically colored design, Morel can't seem to put together two cone drivers the same way. Unit-unit consistency is the worst of any of the major drive-unit makers by far. Their domes don't seem as abysmally constructed, but Morel for me is more of a "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" kind of thing.

 

[Kev06]

Great many, thanks 🙂

It looks like the ScanSpeak Discovery 10F is emerging as one of the clear favourites... So I've posted a thread on the 'Headroom' I was aiming for (here), as I suspect I may not need to achieve it (or all of it) within the driver's rated power. If so then thats where I'm perhaps going wrong with my belief in its 'umph'.

Cheers
Kev

 

[Overkill Audio]

PHL

Hi Kev,

I don't think PHL has UK distribution, not 100% sure though.
PHL in France only deal with OEM 's and Pro audio companies...PHL gear is over built to last a lifetime, he does not even reply to DIY guys!

Your best bet is to find a distributor, try these guys, they are as good as anyone else I think.

Haut-parleurs PHL Audio : Made in France !

You might be lucky and find a pair second hand, but I am always wary of overdriven units or drivers that have been affected by dampness.

Cheers
D.

 

[Kev06]

Thanks Derek, I'll have a look.

Cheers
kev

 

[Face]

Imo, you should pick out a tweeter before purchasing mids.

 

[Kev06]

Imo, you should pick out a tweeter before purchasing mids.

Oh no.. I can see the circle starting all over again! 🙂 I guess its chicken and egg really, but its very true that so far I've neglected the tweeter. Perhaps I should adopt an iterative approach; within my general aspirations, I've got a few good candidates for the bass, now thanks to this thread a few for the mid, and next will be the tweeter - but i won't actually choose any in isolation from the others.

Cheers
kev