Child-free Couple Life

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#82
Jacco,
Our little dog does the same thing to me and my snacks. He knows how to open the fridge, get out the container, open it, heat it up or not as it may be, finish it completely and then clean the dish.

I don't know how many times my wife has blamed me and I just can't get her to believe the truth. The little ******* doggie is that smart.

What's a guy to do?
 
#83
freax: I think folk should have children if they want them. No other reason. Other reasons given to have or or not have children are red herrings.

In response to your post:

It is fact that increased economic development leads to lower birthrate.

It is fact that increasing numbers of poverty stricken folk leads to horrific environmental damage: deforestation; desertification. The most environmentally damaged areas of Africa and Asia provide ample evidence of this.

freax said:
I think thats a completely insane way to play dice with the earth. Here we have scientists the world over trying to tell us to stop breeding and then an idea like this comes up and all of a sudden people who trust the scientists every day to keep safe are flat out ignoring them like Lemmings walking off a cliff.

With automation and machinery there won't be any jobs left for us let alone anymore kids. We're seeing huge chunks of the labour workforce being offset by automation every decade or so, who says that trend won't continue? Greedy company wants to be even more greedier, who would've saw it before hand! I guess no one!

Just goes to show you that when people have something good they put blinkers on.

Stephen Hawking: Humans must escape Earth or perish | DVICE



Let me push this point ahead one more time with a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdsbuJfMpr0

And I'm done, on this thread. I could add a gif of indiana jones screaming "We're all going to die" But I would probably be censored for it.
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#86
Illusus said:
Wow, that freax is sooo cynical! I used to feel like that when I was in my late teens/early twenties... before I had done anything and felt the world owed me everything. ( I respect you and acknowledge your intellect, freax).
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I don't feel like the world owes me anything, it hasn't given me anything so far!

Do you think its easy being me? You think I like being alive? no, I hate my existence and even worse I hate others who try to talk **** about me without even understanding why I'm being so vocal.

I'm genuinely fearful for the future of this world, if you aren't then thats your choice.

There is no young-mans attitude here, no ********. I try to convey what I have to say with humour just so people don't get bored and skip my post not because I'm immature.

I didn't really want a child. I have always liked children and they liked me but I didn't want to screw up one of my own. According to some of the earlier posts, I don't make enough money to have happy children that will be able to contribute positively to society. My children are destined to become locusts, devouring all of humanity's crops of progress.
Three years ago the accident was born. I am happier every day since. Seeing a blank little meat puppet learn to eat, speak, lie, joke, love, to develop a character... to learn anything at all is awesome. I am learning more about myself, human relations, psychology, happiness and life more than I learned from any text or youtube video. My son has given me the insight to find direction within myself and become a better me, a better human being. I didn't know if I would be a good parent, but know that I am one now. My wife and I freely use love, understanding and intellectual stimulation mixed with a good fart joke to help my little meat puppet find, pursue, feed and cope with his wonder of the world and beyond. It really is a beautiful thing. Any concessions I make are more than worth it. It may be just chemistry, but getting lost in the illusion, if you're up for it, is grand.
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I done that all by myself without having to have a kid. It sounds to me like you attribute having a child as the single most greatest thing in your life that has happened so far, why? I would agree that my life has been pretty exciting so far and I can manage to find enough happyness each day to go on. But yeah sometimes it makes me feel like whale **** on the bottom of the ocean too. But I get up every morning and do it again, cause I must love it! 🙂

That being said, I commend you on your well made post. and give you some advice, my dad didn't really want to have a kid too, he never really engaged with me and instead made fart jokes and just shrugged off serious issues and serious matters which I genuinely needed him to give me well-made advice on.

Please engage with your kid! Don't give him a cold shrug or a fart joke when he or she asks you for help. And I'm sure you will and I respect you and your descision.

Sincerely, Freax.
 
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#87
FrankWW said:
freax: I think folk should have children if they want them. No other reason. Other reasons given to have or or not have children are red herrings.

In response to your post:

It is fact that increased economic development leads to lower birthrate.

It is fact that increasing numbers of poverty stricken folk leads to horrific environmental damage: deforestation; desertification. The most environmentally damaged areas of Africa and Asia provide ample evidence of this.
Click to expand...

This is a temporary condition. We don't have enough time to keep on consuming fossil fuels. We don't have enough time to keep on developing the poorer nations.

Its also a fact that those on the poverty line in developed nations are still procreating like crazy despite living on welfare. And that will never change.

People are currency, if you don't have money then people see money in procreating.
Bring in robots, people become low wage slaves because a robot can do more complex tasks better for cheaper, no need for schooling then. (idiocracy)
Slaves cannot revolt because of the police state, the police state censors any and all discussion on the topic.
Eternal slavery that no one can ever fight back against, drones, tanks, hummer-mounted microwave weapons to keep protesters under control and behind barriers.

By the way whats with all of the tank and hummer buying in the US at the moment? Every single County has bought a massive amount of armoured vehicles. For crowd control.

Each civilization that has come along has said the exact same things, thousands of civilizations in the past have come and gone purely because they ignored these exact same issues of either deforestation or resource depletion and overpopulation.

You see, I have precedent up the wazoo, name one single civilization in our past which hasn't gone extinct because of the two following rules:
#1 We consumed resources until they were all gone.
#2 We procreated until all of those resources were gone.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2003/07/17/2858655.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtaGNQqUWo0

Diamond identifies five factors that contribute to collapse: climate change, hostile neighbors, collapse of essential trading partners, environmental problems, and failure to adapt to environmental issues.
He also lists 12 environmental problems facing humankind today. The first eight have historically contributed to the collapse of past societies:

  1. Deforestation and habitat destruction
  2. Soil problems (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses)
  3. Water management problems
  4. Overhunting
  5. Overfishing
  6. Effects of introduced species on native species
  7. Overpopulation
  8. Increased per-capita impact of people
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This is what I believe will happen, all it would take is a single hiccup in one complex system that we take for gramted for our society to collapse like a deck of cards. Especially considering we are now a global society.

Remember what happened when all of the hard drive manufacturing plants got flooded? The whole world went on a diet of hard drives, all I'm saying is who knows what the future may hold for us especially now that we've kicked the bee-hive that is mother nature with Global Climate Change.

All this fear has done one thing for me, forced my hand into preparing. stockpiling food. Thats all, I don't lose sleep over this because I know that I'm safe, I've got stockpiles, living in a state of fear for too long is unhealthy.

"For the first time an array of interconnected problems is moving a global civilization toward collapse. Driven by increasing overpopulation and over consumption by the rich, these dilemmas include climate disruption, loss of ecosystem services, global poisoning, depletion of resources (especially soils and groundwater), and the threat of vast famines, epidemics and resource wars. Only a concerted effort to reduce the scale of society and focus much more attention on agriculture and equity seems likely to much improve the human prospect. Growth is the disease; sustainability is attainable, but only with unprecedented rethinking, effort, and cooperation."

This seminar consists of a short presentation given by Professor Paul Ehrlich based on his recent paper Can a collapse of global civilization be avoided? and will be followed by an extended interactive Q&A session with the audience.


Dr. Paul R. Ehrlich is the Bing Professor of Population Studies, and President, Center for Conservation Biology at Stanford University. His research interests are in the ecology and evolution of natural populations of butterflies, reef fishes, birds and human beings.

Anne Ehrlich is a Senior Research Scientist in Biology at Stanford and focuses her research on policy issues related to the environment. She has carried out research and coauthored many technical articles in population biology. She also has written extensively on issues of public concern such as population control, environmental protection, and environmental consequences of nuclear war and is coauthor of ten books.
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There is also the fact that western civilization isn't breeding enough, we're being over-run in the population race by foreign countries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LA5xhXk_4U

It won't be our children leading the world tomorrow, it will be the country with the most kids. China.

God help us if they ever become hostile.

By the way, while we're busy buying cars and polluting the world has anyone taken notice of the massive numbers of extinct wildlife and bacteria and deforestation that is occuring?

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/mar/07/extinction-species-evolve
 
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#88
Mass Extinction Underway | Biodiversity Crisis | Global Species Loss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JmrmwIyhAE

Sir David discovers that the world is warming at an unprecedented rate, and finds out why this is now far beyond any normal allowance for cyclical fluctuation. But are humans to blame? These changes are already in motion whatever we do now, but Sir David believes that we may be able to act to prevent a catastrophe. People around the world are having to adapt their way of life as the climate changes; the Inuit in the Arctic whose hunting is now limited, the Pacific island inhabitants forced to move as their homes disappear beneath the waves, and the Siberian homes slowly sinking into the permafrost. Sir David investigates some of the possible scenarios for the future, including rising sea-levels, insect plagues and an increase in diseases.
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Anyone who reads and sees all of this and goes out and buys a Hummer/SUV or keeps their incandescent light globes plugged in or buys that super-sized fridge or just "pops down to the shops" for a coffee deserves anything they get in the future.

I don't want to be right. My food stockpile only lasts a month.
 
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#93
It is a curious human distortion of reality that has each generation somehow imagining that they live at the "end of days". The history of the world has seen times much worse than these on any number of metrics: famine, disease, infant mortality, death by violence, you name it. I would recommend reading Stephen Pinkers' "The Better Angels of Our Nature" for a fresh perspective on how short and deadly the life of primitive and historical societies were. As to the idea that we are "destroying the planet"...it is a fanciful notion. The planet will be happily spinning away for billions of years until the sun enters its red giant phase, which will indeed be an ending point. Until then any temporary impacts we inflict upon the earth will disappear soon after we do, if it comes to that. Save yourself, your species or other species if you choose but the planet needs no saving.
 
#96
freax, I said:
It is fact that increased economic development leads to lower birthrate.

It is fact that increasing numbers of poverty stricken folk leads to horrific environmental damage: deforestation; desertification. The most environmentally damaged areas of Africa and Asia provide ample evidence of this.
Click to expand...
Your reply is below where I've dealt with some of your errors. I don't have time to reply to them all.


freax said:
This is a temporary condition. We don't have enough time to keep on consuming fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

The world is awash with hydrocarbon fuel. They can be used very efficiently with high temperature fuel cells. There is even promising research in area of low temp FC using fuels like diesel.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...mages&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=&gws_rd=ssl

We don't have enough time to keep on developing the poorer nations.
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Most of the environmental damage caused by poverty stricken folk in semi arid areas, (such as most of sub-Saharan Africa), could be ameliorated almost completely within a period maybe 50 - 100 yrs by correct grazing techniques. See

Allan Savory

Its also a fact that those on the poverty line in developed nations are still procreating like crazy despite living on welfare. And that will never change.
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This is a matter of policy which encourages women to have more children so they can receive more money. So change the policy.

People are currency,
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This doesn't make sense: Currency is a medium of exchange, like dollars or sea shells.

if you don't have money then people see money in procreating.
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Like I said, change the policy.

Bring in robots, people become low wage slaves because a robot can do more complex tasks better for cheaper, no need for schooling then. (idiocracy)
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Who is going to design, build, service and program the robots? Who is going to feed, clothe, shelter, transport, educate and entertain those who do? More robots?😛


Slaves cannot revolt because of the police state, the police state censors any and all discussion on the topic.
Eternal slavery that no one can ever fight back against, drones, tanks, hummer-mounted microwave weapons to keep protesters under control and behind barriers.
Click to expand...
What slaves? Who is stopping us discussing?

By the way whats with all of the tank and hummer buying in the US at the moment? Every single County has bought a massive amount of armoured vehicles. For crowd control.
Click to expand...
Yeah sure, that worked fine for Assad, didn't it? When the rubber hits the road those toys count for diddly squat.

Each civilization that has come along has said the exact same things, thousands of civilizations in the past have come and gone purely because they ignored these exact same issues of either deforestation or resource depletion and overpopulation.
Click to expand...
The US and Europe have more forest land now than they did in 1900.

You see, I have precedent up the wazoo, name one single civilization in our past which hasn't gone extinct because of the two following rules:
#1 We consumed resources until they were all gone.
#2 We procreated until all of those resources were gone.
Click to expand...
The Roman Empire collapsed and Europe fell into the dark ages for neither of those reasons. Read Gibbon.

This is what I believe will happen, all it would take is a single hiccup in one complex system that we take for gramted for our society to collapse like a deck of cards. Especially considering we are now a global society.

Remember what happened when all of the hard drive manufacturing plants got flooded? The whole world went on a diet of hard drives, all I'm saying is who knows what the future may hold for us especially now that we've kicked the bee-hive that is mother nature with Global Climate Change.
Click to expand...
Has India or China had a famine since they gave up controlled markets?

All this fear has done one thing for me, forced my hand into preparing. stockpiling food. Thats all, I don't lose sleep over this because I know that I'm safe, I've got stockpiles, living in a state of fear for too long is unhealthy.
Click to expand...
You do sound fearful. Do you live in an area subject to earthquakes or tidal waves?

There is also the fact that western civilization isn't breeding enough, we're being over-run in the population race by foreign countries:
The Western Civilization Will Go Extinct - YouTube

It won't be our children leading the world tomorrow, it will be the country with the most kids. China.

God help us if they ever become hostile.
Click to expand...
If the Chinese overtake us it will due their serious attitude to education. No other reason.

I think it's time you broadened your sources of information.
 
#99
I done that all by myself without having to have a kid. It sounds to me like you attribute having a child as the single most greatest thing in your life that has happened so far, why? I would agree that my life has been pretty exciting so far and I can manage to find enough happyness each day to go on. But yeah sometimes it makes me feel like whale **** on the bottom of the ocean too. But I get up every morning and do it again, cause I must love it!
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I also thought I had done all that before the child and fairly well too, my son put a new perspective on what I already knew, added a new dimension to my views, an understanding of understanding. If I could put it into words I'd be poet. Maybe if I had more time...damn kid 😉

The birth of me is the greatest thing in my life. Without that there would be nothing (I mean that in a "if a tree falls in a forest..." way). The kid is a close second for a multitude of reasons. I know, I know, big deal, anyone can make a kid, but it's how you view that kid that makes it what it is. The negative views are obvious; burden, parasite..etc, but I see my son as an extremely complex, organic robot; self aware, moral, intelligent, physical. There are many very intelligent and highly educated people trying tirelessly to achieve such in machine form; I only had to have sex. Try building a machine that can walk as well as human, then add all the other things a human can do and put it all in a compact, biodegradable, self healing package that runs on organic fuel and makes organic waste.
I won't even attempt to define love... now that would make me a great poet.
 
#100
give you some advice, my dad didn't really want to have a kid too, he never really engaged with me and instead made fart jokes and just shrugged off serious issues and serious matters which I genuinely needed him to give me well-made advice on.
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That is very good advice for anyone. I do engage my son... in every way I'm capable of doing so. Although he is only three years old he is quite( i speak in relative terms) durable mentally and physically, I guide him without forcing, and that is quite trying for a caring parent. The human brain seems to train its owner for disaster by playing out extremely painful scenarios that feel all too real with real physical reactions (tears, adrenaline, nausea). I have held the disfigured corpse of my son many times in my minds eye.

Neither my wife nor I speak to our son like some people talk to puppies. Children are more capable than usually given credit for. We have real conversations, just simpler than we would have with someone that has had decades of practice. We find fart jokes and the like just as necessary though. A well rounded human character needs a varied diet of stimuli... besides, if you never laugh, what's the point?
 
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