Having kids is how you pay off the debt to your parents for raising you. But, if you desire to be a freeloader, it's probably best if your genes go to waste.
Edit: this sounds terribly unfriendly. There might be all sorts of reasons for not having kids; not having a solid relationship with someone up to raising kids could be one of them.
Edit: this sounds terribly unfriendly. There might be all sorts of reasons for not having kids; not having a solid relationship with someone up to raising kids could be one of them.
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I can't connect with this logic. We never asked to be born to this world, how are we in-debt from being raised?
Do try to keep it more as a discussion and less of a flame-war.
It's always funny to read some people claiming that human population
number is a problem. Compare the population density of the big cities
with the population density of the entire state. People are smart enough
to explore the universe and not smart enough to build new cities! Someone
is pulling our legs seriously.
number is a problem. Compare the population density of the big cities
with the population density of the entire state. People are smart enough
to explore the universe and not smart enough to build new cities! Someone
is pulling our legs seriously.
I loved it when I got the news 22yrs back that I would be a father 🙂. The same joy again 19yrs back 🙂...
Yes it costs but the gains has made it worth it - we choose to show our kids the world to the extent we could afford - mostly in Europe but a few times in the US and Egypt as well. Both the "kids" are used to travel and explore. The wife and me couldn't have succeded better. Sure - some parts of our egos had to stand back for the time. If I had a chance to do it over again we probably would have travelled and explored even more.
Regards
Yes it costs but the gains has made it worth it - we choose to show our kids the world to the extent we could afford - mostly in Europe but a few times in the US and Egypt as well. Both the "kids" are used to travel and explore. The wife and me couldn't have succeded better. Sure - some parts of our egos had to stand back for the time. If I had a chance to do it over again we probably would have travelled and explored even more.
Regards
Don't you mean the financial debt of the house that the parents bought? Or the student loans that failed to achieve job prospects for the kids..
Multi-generational living is here to stay in a low wage economy: Over 57 million Americans live in multi-generational households.
Don't forget that this is whats happening in the richest economy per person of the world.
http://www.mybudget360.com/new-normal-american-dream-middle-class-low-wage-work-college-retirement/
Doesn't sound like a world I'd bring a kid into. I am supposed to want to be a parent right? That means that I have to accept the consequences of what would happen to this kid if he was born into this world.
Anyway I'm going to step out of this thread, I don't mean to enflame the emotions of others or distort reality (unless it involves audio signals and the laws of physics apparently). I just want to state facts and give the facts a realistic emotional image.
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Depends on your meaning of 'selfish' - Jung's no.1 or no.2 self?
Cynical viewpoint - having children or not is a choice. Nothing necessarily to do with optimism about life. It could be though that someone who's not optimistic about the planet's ability to support more human beings might therefore choose not to initiate another one to live on it.
What I mean is, you were put on this Earth. If you value your existence, please recognize that you are here because of your parents. Not to pass on that privilige for hedonistic reasons only just doesn't jibe with me. At the same time, people shouldn't have kids contre coer either, bad for everybody.
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I quote myself on this.
When it is a fact the choises are - continue the parentship or give the child up for adoption. If one chooses to continue one blo**y well educates the child in bahaviour and manners. Equally in the world around us, other cultures and why they may behave differently. In a few words - educate the childs brain to seek knowledge and understanding. This all comes outta loooveeee 🙂
Regards
'
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My parents still traveled a bit with me and my siblings. Until your kids start school you can basically still travel, it's just the kids go with you. You probably can't party at night like you used to or go to movie theaters but that doesn't mean you still can't go out during the day or go to the beach.
My family was pretty smart about traveling and they tended to only go to places where they had family or close friends they could stay with. As a trade off we would return the favor and allow them to stay with us. I have a baby daughter now and at this age the cost of travel doesn't go up by that much. They don't need an extra plane ticket or another full size bed in the hotel room. Before I had a kid I thought long and hard about what exactly it is I couldn't do anymore after having a kid and the list is pretty small.
Your statement of postponing your life by 18-20 years rings false to me. I would only say that if I didn't want my kids to take part in what I like for the next 20 years, which is bogus. I am into DIY and audio because my father loved building things and loved music, he didn't wait 20 years before playing his albums.
So unless your life consists of massive drug consumption and 24 hour porno marathons, I don't really think you would have to change your lifestyle too radically.
My family was pretty smart about traveling and they tended to only go to places where they had family or close friends they could stay with. As a trade off we would return the favor and allow them to stay with us. I have a baby daughter now and at this age the cost of travel doesn't go up by that much. They don't need an extra plane ticket or another full size bed in the hotel room. Before I had a kid I thought long and hard about what exactly it is I couldn't do anymore after having a kid and the list is pretty small.
Your statement of postponing your life by 18-20 years rings false to me. I would only say that if I didn't want my kids to take part in what I like for the next 20 years, which is bogus. I am into DIY and audio because my father loved building things and loved music, he didn't wait 20 years before playing his albums.
So unless your life consists of massive drug consumption and 24 hour porno marathons, I don't really think you would have to change your lifestyle too radically.
UK is not scary at all. You should come visit. Not sure where your 1 week lapse causing mass starvation comes from. We have plenty of stocks piled up ready. Running short of bananas won't kill anyone. And plenty of cabbages in the field behind my house.
What is fascinating is how humans are actually capable of over riding the mammalian breeding urges. It has no benefit to the species, in fact if anything reverses Darwinism, yet we can do it. We are an amazing species for all our faults.
BTW I am an advocate of choice. If people consciously chose not to have a family then I support that fully. I'm an outlier as I have had way more than the average of 2.4 and sure that raises many eyebrows, but I have no regrets.
Another big gain on gets with kids is that you have to think in new directions and alter your own view of the world - very reviving! I made a choise for 10 years ago after specializing in what I do for living to the extent that I missed a lot of real life - thanks to the kids and a loving wife I at last learnt that there is more than work in a full life.
Sure, I still do some work that has some interjunctions with work - but they are made from a totally different viewpoint - they are for fun and personal interests. If they then can be used in my work - fine.
Regards
Sure, I still do some work that has some interjunctions with work - but they are made from a totally different viewpoint - they are for fun and personal interests. If they then can be used in my work - fine.
Regards
There's a lot of information out there; Simon's bet has a lot of interesting corollaries. Start with per capita agricultural output versus time. Move on to life expectancy, infant mortality, air and water quality, per capita production of commodity materials, change of carrying capacity with time...
You certainly are free to not have kids. And if you don't want them, it's best not to have them. But the "we're overpopulated" excuse is total nonsense. Just admit that you choose not to have them and then get on with your life.
Nine meals from anarchy - how Britain is facing a very real food crisis | Daily Mail Online
Nine Meals Away from Anarchy - Environment - Utne Reader
Its not something which is specific to the UK, every country in the world would be affected.
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In GB, as in the US, poor people are fat.
Per capita agricultural output versus time? Doesn't quite fit your narrative.
Per capita agricultural output versus time? Doesn't quite fit your narrative.
Ah the daily Mail. Not quite at national inquirer levels, but not far off. You will find no serious journalism there. The article is 6 years old and still no problems. They are always claiming we are doomed, and oddly we are not.
Like the immigrants issue. Latest research shows that on balance, recent immigrants to UK contribute a lot more to the economy that a large chunk of the feckless who were born here. No **** sherlock. People come to a country for a better life and want to work. Amazing.
We're 62, married 36 years, happy and without kids or regrets. Early in our marriage we both assumed we'd have kids someday. Both our siblings had kids first so we got plenty of exposure via nieces and nephews of which we now have 11 + 7 spouses and 9 greats so far. At some point in our mid-30s we decided kids were not for us and I went for the snip-snip. One consequence of remaining childless is an improved financial picture without the costs of college and weddings that comes at about the retirement juncture. So at some point our nieces and nephews will benefit from our decision, probably at about the time they are facing the costs of college and weddings for their kids and retirement.
But this is a decision only you can make and no one can really help you make it, so keep an open mind, communicate with your partner, and go with the flow. Good luck!
But this is a decision only you can make and no one can really help you make it, so keep an open mind, communicate with your partner, and go with the flow. Good luck!
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