Peter, A reasonable list of observations. Let's proceed at whatever rate is possible, then decide about the order. As you have said, a good knob is always something people need, so it doesn't have to be linked to the chassis. They way you have listed the items on your order form is good in that people can decide to order your local knobs if you proceed with them or not.
Then again, who knows what problems you might run into getting them built by your people, and the Indian knobs might arrive at a similar time.
Of course the question is - who's organizing the group buy?
When they were for your chassis, and possibly quite a few extras for your commercial production , AND they could be included in peopls chassis orders, then I would have thought it only reasonable that you distribute them. Now I wonder if you have interest in stocking and shipping them. If we get a goodly number of people to pre order and pay on the WIKI, then any risks are spread, and any future commercial order for you could be done with much less risk.
Of course designing a knob isn't easy. I'm an architect, and any design is harder than it looks- in fact thats one of my definitions of good design- it looks like it was easy!
BUT the feeling of accomplishment is hard to beat! If we stick close to another design we are safer. Boy, what a chance to learn basic 3d computer modeling . Anyone want to volunteer who already knows some?
Meanwhile I have requested pricing on the Classe 😉
Then again, who knows what problems you might run into getting them built by your people, and the Indian knobs might arrive at a similar time.
Of course the question is - who's organizing the group buy?
When they were for your chassis, and possibly quite a few extras for your commercial production , AND they could be included in peopls chassis orders, then I would have thought it only reasonable that you distribute them. Now I wonder if you have interest in stocking and shipping them. If we get a goodly number of people to pre order and pay on the WIKI, then any risks are spread, and any future commercial order for you could be done with much less risk.
Of course designing a knob isn't easy. I'm an architect, and any design is harder than it looks- in fact thats one of my definitions of good design- it looks like it was easy!
BUT the feeling of accomplishment is hard to beat! If we stick close to another design we are safer. Boy, what a chance to learn basic 3d computer modeling . Anyone want to volunteer who already knows some?
Meanwhile I have requested pricing on the Classe 😉
Peter Daniel said:
Agree completely. Let's get moving on this chassis and stop the perseveration about knobs.
The Classe knobs will be sent with my chassis kit, so I have no worries of being stuck with them. Any extras will go with Amp-1. I don't even have to collect prepayments in this case.
As to the other knobs production, maybe it would be worthwile to design some different type, something similar to ML style? This would give people more choices.
PS: Regarding chassis, they started cutting material today.
As to the other knobs production, maybe it would be worthwile to design some different type, something similar to ML style? This would give people more choices.
PS: Regarding chassis, they started cutting material today.
Here are a couple pics of my knobs. The ones in the foreground are for me, with Padauk inserts to match my GC and preamp design, the dimensions are 1.5"x1.2". The ones in the back ground I made for Peter, they are 1"x1.2" with maple inserts, these, however are unfinished (sorry Peter, it got late and I screwed up a pair, I used the wrong bit to bore the shaft holes). The position indicator is an aluminum dot flush with the wood face. These are protos and not perfect yet.
I already mentioned to Peter that mass production, even limited, would be much too time consuming. I turn these on an old lathe by hand, the wood is cut by hand and they are hand fit and finished. It has taken me an hour per knob. I'm sure I could shave that time in half with jigs and by applying a few clever shortcuts I thought of while making the protos, but still it doesn't seem very efficient. Also, I do not have the resources at hand to anodize them (anyone know off hand what anodizing costs?) I'd estimate the final cost would end up too high...definitely more than <$5 a knob, even though I'd be more or less donating my time. Nontheless, if interest is high enough, I may sacrifice all my evenings (and possibly my good relations with my wife) for the cause.
Tell me what you think and I'll try to work out the lead time.
I already mentioned to Peter that mass production, even limited, would be much too time consuming. I turn these on an old lathe by hand, the wood is cut by hand and they are hand fit and finished. It has taken me an hour per knob. I'm sure I could shave that time in half with jigs and by applying a few clever shortcuts I thought of while making the protos, but still it doesn't seem very efficient. Also, I do not have the resources at hand to anodize them (anyone know off hand what anodizing costs?) I'd estimate the final cost would end up too high...definitely more than <$5 a knob, even though I'd be more or less donating my time. Nontheless, if interest is high enough, I may sacrifice all my evenings (and possibly my good relations with my wife) for the cause.
Tell me what you think and I'll try to work out the lead time.
Attachments
wow
Let me be the first to say "Sweet!" If not for this application, I'd certainly like to talk to you about a couple of the larger knobs, and I'd certainly be willing to pay way more than $5 a knob. (Although certainly not enough to make it worth incurring the displeasure of your wife.)
Paul
Let me be the first to say "Sweet!" If not for this application, I'd certainly like to talk to you about a couple of the larger knobs, and I'd certainly be willing to pay way more than $5 a knob. (Although certainly not enough to make it worth incurring the displeasure of your wife.)
Paul
Thank you for the compliment Paul, Email me I'm sure we can work something out if you only want a couple.
Those are super nice!!
Lovely DIY work... i think that's what makes them so nice.
It's great to look at something and know that it's hand made
and not some churned out by the thousands for a buck type thing.
It would be cool to match the wood color of the knobs to the
side panels of the Specialized Kit. 🙂
Lovely DIY work... i think that's what makes them so nice.
It's great to look at something and know that it's hand made
and not some churned out by the thousands for a buck type thing.
It would be cool to match the wood color of the knobs to the
side panels of the Specialized Kit. 🙂
bzdang/Dave,
Is that a Cad rendering or a photo? Either way an impressive
representation!! Maybe we can shoot some ideas your way and you could render them plus some of your ideas. Whatever. This seems like the perfect t ime for me to learn to model stuff. Maybe I'll give it a go too.
Peter, The Classe knobs certainly are nice. Do you have to have them made, or do you still have a bunch from your buy out?
I agree that the knob issue shouldn't slow the delivery of the chassis, and many are desparate to proceed, so if the Classe knobs are available they should certainly be offered to those that want them and are willing to pay for them.
I agree with Peter , in the long term, it will benefit us to look into the India alternative also. Delivery is 6 to 8 weeks from payment.
Will get the confirmation on price ASAP
Illusus, looks like you will get a gainclone prize with those!
Is that a Cad rendering or a photo? Either way an impressive
representation!! Maybe we can shoot some ideas your way and you could render them plus some of your ideas. Whatever. This seems like the perfect t ime for me to learn to model stuff. Maybe I'll give it a go too.
Peter, The Classe knobs certainly are nice. Do you have to have them made, or do you still have a bunch from your buy out?
I agree that the knob issue shouldn't slow the delivery of the chassis, and many are desparate to proceed, so if the Classe knobs are available they should certainly be offered to those that want them and are willing to pay for them.
I agree with Peter , in the long term, it will benefit us to look into the India alternative also. Delivery is 6 to 8 weeks from payment.
Will get the confirmation on price ASAP
Illusus, looks like you will get a gainclone prize with those!
Cad design
That was a cad rendering, set up to reflect a jpg photo that I took of my coworker's Maxim calendar. He really liked it.
I can help out with knob styling and with getting a drawing and 3d cad file out (I design proaudio amp chassis for a living). I can post 3d model files that everyone can spin around with a free viewer to check out. Will also assist with learning 3d modelling if I can.
Only snag is that I'm leaving for Florida next week to see the Mice, won't be back until mid-May.
bzDave
That was a cad rendering, set up to reflect a jpg photo that I took of my coworker's Maxim calendar. He really liked it.
I can help out with knob styling and with getting a drawing and 3d cad file out (I design proaudio amp chassis for a living). I can post 3d model files that everyone can spin around with a free viewer to check out. Will also assist with learning 3d modelling if I can.
Only snag is that I'm leaving for Florida next week to see the Mice, won't be back until mid-May.
bzDave
Thanks guys.
Moe29, the kit is the inspiration behind the knobs, the ones in the background of the pic have maple inserts to match the kit. I have to get off my a** and make a couple more pairs for mr.Daniel to play with.
Dave, nice render and design!(I like ladies). I wish I had the time to learn CAD that well, but for now it's paper and pen then proto.
I was brainstorming with my father today, and we have come up with a few shortcuts to make the knobs more efficiently and keep the handmade quality. No idea about the anodizing yet. I thought of alodine but that would change the colour of the aluminum.
I'd like to know how many people are interested so I can calculate the approximate cost and lead time.
Moe29, the kit is the inspiration behind the knobs, the ones in the background of the pic have maple inserts to match the kit. I have to get off my a** and make a couple more pairs for mr.Daniel to play with.
Dave, nice render and design!(I like ladies). I wish I had the time to learn CAD that well, but for now it's paper and pen then proto.
I was brainstorming with my father today, and we have come up with a few shortcuts to make the knobs more efficiently and keep the handmade quality. No idea about the anodizing yet. I thought of alodine but that would change the colour of the aluminum.
I'd like to know how many people are interested so I can calculate the approximate cost and lead time.
Illusus, I love your wood insert knob, the pointer dot makes it perfect!
A local anodizer should be willing to do your knobs if you're willing to pay a minimum charge.
If you sent all of the knobs to Daniel he could take them to Progressive Anodizing in Scarborough for clear anodizing. They do great work, but there is a $60 minimum, so you might want to get a large enough group of parts together first.
As a general note on anodizing, you get slightly different shades of silver from different aluminum grades, so knobs may not exactly match front panels.
FYI I've had some chassis paint and screenprinting done by a small company in Scarborough, they will do prototypes and small quantities if required, can come in handy.
Check this thing out, did the chassis a couple of years ago, before I knew that chip amps were cool...
A local anodizer should be willing to do your knobs if you're willing to pay a minimum charge.
If you sent all of the knobs to Daniel he could take them to Progressive Anodizing in Scarborough for clear anodizing. They do great work, but there is a $60 minimum, so you might want to get a large enough group of parts together first.
As a general note on anodizing, you get slightly different shades of silver from different aluminum grades, so knobs may not exactly match front panels.
FYI I've had some chassis paint and screenprinting done by a small company in Scarborough, they will do prototypes and small quantities if required, can come in handy.
Check this thing out, did the chassis a couple of years ago, before I knew that chip amps were cool...
Well BZdave at the rate we're going, you might be back.
Maybe I'l have a couple to render then. Probably we'll get something very similar to an existing design the first order.
I'm kind of pleased to know that there wasn't this babe running around behind you saying "Dave, stop that knob photography right now and spend some time with me!!" It would make your priorities seem rather suspect.
Maybe I'l have a couple to render then. Probably we'll get something very similar to an existing design the first order.
I'm kind of pleased to know that there wasn't this babe running around behind you saying "Dave, stop that knob photography right now and spend some time with me!!" It would make your priorities seem rather suspect.
There is a babe, but she's running around in distress because of the fostex back-horns that keep finding their way upstairs into the livingroom while she's out !
bzDave
bzDave
Illusus said:
I'd be interested... i'd have to send some of the Garry Oak i hope to use a lot of.
dave
OK Tarun has visited Uncle Harry. Here is his report:
"The Classe knob needs a straight cut finally culminating in a circular rise. This straight-plus-circular thing is much more complex for HarryValecha to do than the plain circular cut. So he's working on it.
But he's confident that he can do it. And he says that the price will be USD 3.00 per knob, including shipping to any part of the US, if ordered in a set of one hundred. Basically, you send him a cheque of USD 300, and he ships you a hundred knobs. These will be 25mm dia. Yes, I decided to stick to your spec and ask him only about the 25mm dia.
He now wants a rough drawing, however rough, with dimensions. He wants to know what the height of the knob will be, what the length of the flat portion of the cut will be, etc. I can only tell him the shaft diameter and the overall diameter. Even on the shaft diameter, I am now a bit
confused.... should it be 6mm or 6.35mm or 6.5mm?
Can you get these sizes to me ASAP? Preferably with a drawing, however rough? I probably need just a side view showing the cut. All the critical dimensions can be marked on that one.
And delivery time will be 4 to 6 weeks."
Tarun
Peter
Looks pretty good. At that price, I personally would need about
8, even if they aren't quite up to Classe standards, but they might in fact be up to those standards. You offered to do a sketch
of the dimensions of the knob. It would have to be in mm of course. Without this huge help I can't do it. Posting the sketch might be the best way to get comments and get the info to India and get any feedback from there too.
Thanks,
Mark
Anyone else interested? If so, speak up, if there looks to be interest I could start a wiki, and move this off Peter's thread. Or perhaps Peter is interested in getting the first order and using any extras in his business.
I need input.
"The Classe knob needs a straight cut finally culminating in a circular rise. This straight-plus-circular thing is much more complex for HarryValecha to do than the plain circular cut. So he's working on it.
But he's confident that he can do it. And he says that the price will be USD 3.00 per knob, including shipping to any part of the US, if ordered in a set of one hundred. Basically, you send him a cheque of USD 300, and he ships you a hundred knobs. These will be 25mm dia. Yes, I decided to stick to your spec and ask him only about the 25mm dia.
He now wants a rough drawing, however rough, with dimensions. He wants to know what the height of the knob will be, what the length of the flat portion of the cut will be, etc. I can only tell him the shaft diameter and the overall diameter. Even on the shaft diameter, I am now a bit
confused.... should it be 6mm or 6.35mm or 6.5mm?
Can you get these sizes to me ASAP? Preferably with a drawing, however rough? I probably need just a side view showing the cut. All the critical dimensions can be marked on that one.
And delivery time will be 4 to 6 weeks."
Tarun
Peter
Looks pretty good. At that price, I personally would need about
8, even if they aren't quite up to Classe standards, but they might in fact be up to those standards. You offered to do a sketch
of the dimensions of the knob. It would have to be in mm of course. Without this huge help I can't do it. Posting the sketch might be the best way to get comments and get the info to India and get any feedback from there too.
Thanks,
Mark
Anyone else interested? If so, speak up, if there looks to be interest I could start a wiki, and move this off Peter's thread. Or perhaps Peter is interested in getting the first order and using any extras in his business.
I need input.
Yeah, I need input too. $3 is a good price and the offer should be put under serious consideration. The only drawback is long wait.
I'll prepare a drawing, I could even send one knob to him, but again, this will cause even bigger delay.
I'll prepare a drawing, I could even send one knob to him, but again, this will cause even bigger delay.
There is the customs issue too, I don't think that is included, but I can't see how that would get the price so high that it is prohibitive (maybe I just don't know about this stuff) Even at $5 and requiring separate shipping to each person it might be doable because people will probably get more than 2 each...
also customs seems to just let some stuff through...
I don't know the difference in the customs of Canadian and US customs. 😉
also customs seems to just let some stuff through...
I don't know the difference in the customs of Canadian and US customs. 😉
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