As far as I understood this Indian group order thing,
the knob that made its way to Peter is only a sample
of what can be done.
Therefore 1/4" mounting holes, position indicators made before ball blasting
as well as different sizes / shapes shouldn't be a problem at all.
the knob that made its way to Peter is only a sample
of what can be done.
Therefore 1/4" mounting holes, position indicators made before ball blasting
as well as different sizes / shapes shouldn't be a problem at all.
Peter Daniel said:
Did you go with the recessed front panel, like the Amp-1, or did you go with the normal flat front panel?
--
Brian
Magura said:
This was done before in another picture that I saw of this knob, and it didn't look too good. I am assuming that if could be made with some sort of indicator though, as they make these as custom knobs.
/brian - what happened to halojoy?
Since the indian knobs are made on a manual lathe, I guess you dont have many options besides the dot.
If made on a CNC lathe, plenty of options...and a price of around 10 USD 🙁
Magura🙂
If made on a CNC lathe, plenty of options...and a price of around 10 USD 🙁
Magura🙂
Whoops I didn't log in for 2 days and Peter has gotten the knobs I sent him.
The Indian large silver knobs are just samples. The bulk of them were already sold. (80 to England) They were left over from a big previous order. The reason that you got one sample is that someone got to the surplus knobs before you, and Tarun (TcPip) in India sacrificed his knobs to get you a sample. There are NO more knobs like this unless we order a run (with indicator slot?, bigger hole?
SO: please note these facts:
Any knob we get from India will be custom. For that reason the minimum order is 100 knobs.
Since they are custom, the hole can be whatever Peter requires for his rods.
The knobs can look exactly like the Classe or exactly like Mark Levinson, or like the current Indian knob but with and indicator line, etc.
The best way to get an exact match is to send a sample. That way color, texture, small radius's can be copied.
A photo and a dimensioned drawing is probably good enough, but not guaranteed to be an exact copy.
Put yourself in the place of the maker. He will have to guess at some issues at the risk of us not being satisfied. I think that we will be in fact satisfied by something very similar to what we send a photo of, if we also get the main dimensions right. A sample is the only way to get an exact match.
ANY NORMAL KNOB FEATURE CAN BE DONE. there can be an indicator slot, a dot, recessed skirt, curves machined off the sides like Classe or ML, various finishes, different shaft diameter, 2 setscrews instead of one, knurling, pretty much whatever.
The silver sample knob lacks many of these features bcause that's what the client wanted, NOT because they can't be done.
For this reason, in some ways , they are notan optimal sample.
I disagree about the importance of the smaller black samples. They are NOT heavily anodized to cover any machining defects. They have a smooth gloss finish which would reveal any defect. I saw no defects. They demonstrate that curves of different sorts can be machined off the sides, they have indicator slots of 2 kinds, the have a recessed skirt to allow a nut behind them for use where a pot is mounted in the panel. They have knurling.
Actually I think if you made the knob with 2 curves cut out of the side in a bigger size (1 1/8") and anodized it silver, it would be a fine looking knob. Knobs similar to these BUT of a reasonable size are not that easy to get IMHO. Those black sample knobs can be made 2" in diameter and satin silver if that's what we wanted!
The Indian large silver knobs are just samples. The bulk of them were already sold. (80 to England) They were left over from a big previous order. The reason that you got one sample is that someone got to the surplus knobs before you, and Tarun (TcPip) in India sacrificed his knobs to get you a sample. There are NO more knobs like this unless we order a run (with indicator slot?, bigger hole?
SO: please note these facts:
Any knob we get from India will be custom. For that reason the minimum order is 100 knobs.
Since they are custom, the hole can be whatever Peter requires for his rods.
The knobs can look exactly like the Classe or exactly like Mark Levinson, or like the current Indian knob but with and indicator line, etc.
The best way to get an exact match is to send a sample. That way color, texture, small radius's can be copied.
A photo and a dimensioned drawing is probably good enough, but not guaranteed to be an exact copy.
Put yourself in the place of the maker. He will have to guess at some issues at the risk of us not being satisfied. I think that we will be in fact satisfied by something very similar to what we send a photo of, if we also get the main dimensions right. A sample is the only way to get an exact match.
ANY NORMAL KNOB FEATURE CAN BE DONE. there can be an indicator slot, a dot, recessed skirt, curves machined off the sides like Classe or ML, various finishes, different shaft diameter, 2 setscrews instead of one, knurling, pretty much whatever.
The silver sample knob lacks many of these features bcause that's what the client wanted, NOT because they can't be done.
For this reason, in some ways , they are notan optimal sample.
I disagree about the importance of the smaller black samples. They are NOT heavily anodized to cover any machining defects. They have a smooth gloss finish which would reveal any defect. I saw no defects. They demonstrate that curves of different sorts can be machined off the sides, they have indicator slots of 2 kinds, the have a recessed skirt to allow a nut behind them for use where a pot is mounted in the panel. They have knurling.
Actually I think if you made the knob with 2 curves cut out of the side in a bigger size (1 1/8") and anodized it silver, it would be a fine looking knob. Knobs similar to these BUT of a reasonable size are not that easy to get IMHO. Those black sample knobs can be made 2" in diameter and satin silver if that's what we wanted!
Variac said:
Variac, the one in question of being heavily ball blasted is the clear anodized knob.....
Magura🙂
Exactly, my point is that the silver knob isn't a perfect knob to use as a sample. That instead the smaller knobs show the capabilities of the manufacturer better.
The silver knob was included because it was available(a box of overuns was sitting around..)
(the maker doesn't keep an inventory of samples-not smart, we told him!!)
AND It caught Tarun's eye because he liked the form.
Magura , I agree that you have the expertise to analyse the silver knob, and I agree with your assessment (I don't think they were cast though as someone mentioned) - I wish (and request ) that Peter try to get a better phot of the small black knobs BUT, I tried to photo them and it is fiendlishly hard to get a good pic. Peter's are much better than I could do!
In fact, even the silver knobs look quite nice when mounted as the photos show. I have one silver knob that I will photo on a black PAR front panel any day now 😉 ......
I don't see any of the flaws of the silver knob on the black knobs. The issue with the black knobs is to remember that they are samples that the maker had around, and one has to use ones imagination to envision knobs much bigger and in silver.
BrianGT said:
I go with recess panel. The one in a pic was from my first prototype. I will also go for silcsreening on front panel, so any suggestions are welcome (name, dots or not on volume, min/max on volume and most importantly the way to mark 3 choices on sources)
The reason black knobs didn't caught my eye, is that they look like anything readily available from local stores (kilo knobs for instance). I thought they were bought somewhere in India, from a local source specializing in knobs. I can't complain about workmanship here, It's first rate, although brushing job is too rough.
How fast can they make the knobs and how much would it be for Classe style design after all expenses (shipping and any duties, if applicable)?
Although my guys specialize in metal manufacturing for big names in industry, they couldn't confirm on spot that they can make exact quality Classe knobs and suggested a sample first.
How fast can they make the knobs and how much would it be for Classe style design after all expenses (shipping and any duties, if applicable)?
Although my guys specialize in metal manufacturing for big names in industry, they couldn't confirm on spot that they can make exact quality Classe knobs and suggested a sample first.
All I would need for the volume control is a dot at the minimum and another dot at the maximum.
For the other control I would like to see Tuner, CD, Aux as a minimum.
For the other control I would like to see Tuner, CD, Aux as a minimum.
CD1, CD2, CD3?
Seriously, though, I'd rather just see numbers for the inputs than names since the names would be wrong most of the time. But consider this another vote for a volume knob that goes to 11.
Ben
Seriously, though, I'd rather just see numbers for the inputs than names since the names would be wrong most of the time. But consider this another vote for a volume knob that goes to 11.
Ben
keep it simple -- 3 spots for the sources (no set of names is going to satisy everyone), minimum of 2 spots for the volume (i'd like more) or a ramp something like on this control (for the ScrumMaster)
I rather like the India knob.
dave
I rather like the India knob.
dave
Attachments
If you've seen Spinal Tap, you HAVE to have volume to 11.
Just tooo funny! 😀
Here is an update on the par metal boxes with the Indian knob:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=379349#post379349
Can't hold a candle to Peter's, but a cheap and easy alternative!
My thoughts and info on Indian knobs tomorrow!! Sorry- really busy....
Mark
Just tooo funny! 😀
Here is an update on the par metal boxes with the Indian knob:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=379349#post379349
Can't hold a candle to Peter's, but a cheap and easy alternative!
My thoughts and info on Indian knobs tomorrow!! Sorry- really busy....
Mark
Either of the two knobs looks fine to me, as long as the Indian one has a dot or some indicator on it.
Regarding panel markings, I think the input would look neatest and be most flexible with three dots. Three inputs aren't hard to remember. I don't think the volume control needs anything (the knob itself provides all the indication you need). If something has to go on, maybe a dot and start and end of travel, to match the input.
The chassis design is quite elegant and it would be good to keep the front panel that way.
Colin
(Maybe I'll save my comments about phono/RCA sockets for another thread.)
Regarding panel markings, I think the input would look neatest and be most flexible with three dots. Three inputs aren't hard to remember. I don't think the volume control needs anything (the knob itself provides all the indication you need). If something has to go on, maybe a dot and start and end of travel, to match the input.
The chassis design is quite elegant and it would be good to keep the front panel that way.
Colin
(Maybe I'll save my comments about phono/RCA sockets for another thread.)
Knob Manifesto Part 1:
Well, I think we are ready to proceed with the knobs.
Here are some points I would like to make:
- Let me reiterate that any design can be made. It occurs to me that the designs with scooped sides might be more expensive than my previous quote, but I just don't know. Will communicate with Tarun to try to get him to show the maker a photo of the Classe knob.
-As confirmed by the local knob people that Peter knows, knob makers cannot get the copy exact without a sample. For this reason I don't want this to become a contest to see if the Indian maker can magically come up with an exact copy in a very timely manner. This is an opportunity to get knobs, which I think we can confidentely say will be a a high quality, at a price I think we can confidently say will be half of other suppliers.
-This is DIY Audio, where we try new things and are rewarded by good prices and interesting options. Look at the Cardas group buy: A delay on some items that still haven't arrived, but no one is complaining, because that would be ingratitude of a high order!!!
- I am not interested in this only due to price, but the idea of getting parts from all our friends around the world makes me happy. "Geeks Across the Water" When I see my son's amp with the sample Indian knob, I feel good.
-Peter, I understand that you thought that the black knobs were made by someone else. They looked like it to me too! A completely different level of precision. BUT I am assured that the black ones reflect the current capabilities of the maker. (I think he now uses CAM gear)
-In the same way that it is kind of sad to do an exact clone of the Gaincard case, I think it is a bit sad to exactly copy an existing knob. In fact, the design of the Classe and old Mark Levinson knobs might be copyrighted. At the minimum, there have been various comments that the Classe is a bit long. Why not make it about 2mm shorter? Have you lost interest in the ML with the side scoops? Does there seem to be a consensus to go with something similar to the Classe? (it seems to me that people generally like it)
I will now get a photo of the Classe to the maker and report back on price.
Well, I think we are ready to proceed with the knobs.
Here are some points I would like to make:
- Let me reiterate that any design can be made. It occurs to me that the designs with scooped sides might be more expensive than my previous quote, but I just don't know. Will communicate with Tarun to try to get him to show the maker a photo of the Classe knob.
-As confirmed by the local knob people that Peter knows, knob makers cannot get the copy exact without a sample. For this reason I don't want this to become a contest to see if the Indian maker can magically come up with an exact copy in a very timely manner. This is an opportunity to get knobs, which I think we can confidentely say will be a a high quality, at a price I think we can confidently say will be half of other suppliers.
-This is DIY Audio, where we try new things and are rewarded by good prices and interesting options. Look at the Cardas group buy: A delay on some items that still haven't arrived, but no one is complaining, because that would be ingratitude of a high order!!!
- I am not interested in this only due to price, but the idea of getting parts from all our friends around the world makes me happy. "Geeks Across the Water" When I see my son's amp with the sample Indian knob, I feel good.
-Peter, I understand that you thought that the black knobs were made by someone else. They looked like it to me too! A completely different level of precision. BUT I am assured that the black ones reflect the current capabilities of the maker. (I think he now uses CAM gear)
-In the same way that it is kind of sad to do an exact clone of the Gaincard case, I think it is a bit sad to exactly copy an existing knob. In fact, the design of the Classe and old Mark Levinson knobs might be copyrighted. At the minimum, there have been various comments that the Classe is a bit long. Why not make it about 2mm shorter? Have you lost interest in the ML with the side scoops? Does there seem to be a consensus to go with something similar to the Classe? (it seems to me that people generally like it)
I will now get a photo of the Classe to the maker and report back on price.
You better get price info quickly, as within a week I'll have to decide on knobs. As good as Indian source may seem, time frame and any additional costs are also to be considered. I would rather have the knobs made quickly and send them with a chassis, insted of waiting for weeks and then resend them separately.
Classe knobs size is fine when they are put in a front panel recess.
Classe knobs size is fine when they are put in a front panel recess.
Could you clue me in on their diameter?
As I mentioned on other threads, I had a cold that turned into pneumonia, which has set me back about two weeks. Also, until you saw the knobs only a few days ago, there was no point in continuing. I understand that there is a point where time is of the essence! I will get the price soon! Maybe too late for some, but also maybe some don't want to pay $30 a pair. Also , my point was , even if Classe looks fine, couldn't we get something a little different so we have unique items?. If you don't feel up to it fine, but it would be cool to have something special. You have designed some good boxes whay not branch out?
Mark
As I mentioned on other threads, I had a cold that turned into pneumonia, which has set me back about two weeks. Also, until you saw the knobs only a few days ago, there was no point in continuing. I understand that there is a point where time is of the essence! I will get the price soon! Maybe too late for some, but also maybe some don't want to pay $30 a pair. Also , my point was , even if Classe looks fine, couldn't we get something a little different so we have unique items?. If you don't feel up to it fine, but it would be cool to have something special. You have designed some good boxes whay not branch out?
Mark
Designing a knob is not an easy thing. It's usually for a specific product and then proper match elevates the final appearance. It so happens that those Classe knobs are really good looking and without modelling, i'm not sure what else would be better. They are long out of production, so I'm not concerned with copy right issues (not with 100pcs being made).
It is quite risky to order substantial quantity of product from overseas manufacturer, without being able to check the preproduction samples (it's not worth the $5 saved). But here, the time is of most imprtance, and I don't think I could wait that long, uless they would be able to make them at $5/pc. And even then, it might not be worth the delay and risk.
But why not make a knob for other purposes, I will not end up with just those chassis and knobs are always of interest, so let's put a design together. Classe are 1" in dia. They are almost exact size as the sample I got from you.
It is quite risky to order substantial quantity of product from overseas manufacturer, without being able to check the preproduction samples (it's not worth the $5 saved). But here, the time is of most imprtance, and I don't think I could wait that long, uless they would be able to make them at $5/pc. And even then, it might not be worth the delay and risk.
But why not make a knob for other purposes, I will not end up with just those chassis and knobs are always of interest, so let's put a design together. Classe are 1" in dia. They are almost exact size as the sample I got from you.
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