Nuuk,
"I think a large part of the Charlize success is down to a very careful selection of components. The only ones that I would upgrade would be the electrolytic input caps!"
I am about to buy a Charlize, I have a few questions I hope you or someone else can answer. What type of Volume pot should I use, and the price range for a good volume pot? How will the difference in the 10,000 and 50,000 type affect the sound? Which one, 10,000 or 50,000, is best for Charlize? Does anyone have a good link for a volume pot, other connectors? thanks!
The last question, could you describe the sound from Charlize? I've read about the smooth presentation (nice), but my question is does have good punch also?
Thanks in advance,
Tripath07
"I think a large part of the Charlize success is down to a very careful selection of components. The only ones that I would upgrade would be the electrolytic input caps!"
I am about to buy a Charlize, I have a few questions I hope you or someone else can answer. What type of Volume pot should I use, and the price range for a good volume pot? How will the difference in the 10,000 and 50,000 type affect the sound? Which one, 10,000 or 50,000, is best for Charlize? Does anyone have a good link for a volume pot, other connectors? thanks!
The last question, could you describe the sound from Charlize? I've read about the smooth presentation (nice), but my question is does have good punch also?
Thanks in advance,
Tripath07
Nuuk,
I just saw this, thanks.
"I have not seen any details of the Super-T amp but would not use a 50K pot with the Charlize - more like 10K! I wonder if this accounts for your preference for the Super-T? "
What's the difference in sound quality between the two?
Thanks,
Tripath07
I just saw this, thanks.
"I have not seen any details of the Super-T amp but would not use a 50K pot with the Charlize - more like 10K! I wonder if this accounts for your preference for the Super-T? "
What's the difference in sound quality between the two?
Thanks,
Tripath07
A question of value--- or is it?
Nuuk,
Were these 2 controls identical other than value? I would only expect a very slight difference between the 2 unless the 10k part was a lot better type like a stepped attenuator.
If they were the same brand and everything I think you are seeing some interaction with the chips input. This would mean an even lower value would be better. However this is not practical so the next best would be to buffer the control with a very high quality buffer circuit. A high quality coupling transformer could probably give the same benefit with its much lower DC resistance being seen at the chips input.
Yes indeed, finding problems and solving them is what it is all about!
Roger
Nuuk,
Were these 2 controls identical other than value? I would only expect a very slight difference between the 2 unless the 10k part was a lot better type like a stepped attenuator.
If they were the same brand and everything I think you are seeing some interaction with the chips input. This would mean an even lower value would be better. However this is not practical so the next best would be to buffer the control with a very high quality buffer circuit. A high quality coupling transformer could probably give the same benefit with its much lower DC resistance being seen at the chips input.
Yes indeed, finding problems and solving them is what it is all about!
Roger
I have always thought this was the case Roger! I think the class-T amps, like the inverted GC's require a low impedance pot/attenuator, or a buffer between them and a higher value pot.
I am surprised when I see people operating a NOS DAC (like Monica2) and a class-T amp (Charlize) with only a volume control between the two. The NOS DACs (in my experience) work much better into at least a 20K load while the class-T amps prefer 10K.
Nuuk,
Thanks for the link! I will be looking forward to getting Charlize all set up. Have a great day.
Tripath07
Thanks for the link! I will be looking forward to getting Charlize all set up. Have a great day.
Tripath07
Nuuk, which voltage do you prefer?
I'm enjoying my Charlize, using the Skynet 8080 SMPS I bought from Nuuk. (It's a 12V SMPS). I noticed on the DIYAudio Tripath Wiki that they recommend starting at 13.5 volts.
What's your preference? Have you tried Charlize at higher voltages?
Thanks,
Peter
I'm enjoying my Charlize, using the Skynet 8080 SMPS I bought from Nuuk. (It's a 12V SMPS). I noticed on the DIYAudio Tripath Wiki that they recommend starting at 13.5 volts.
What's your preference? Have you tried Charlize at higher voltages?
Thanks,
Peter
To be honest, I have only ever run the class-T amps at 12 volts. I know that you can squeeze a bit more out of the SMPS. I'll give it a try when I can find some time! 😉
Re: Nuuk, which voltage do you prefer?
Hi Peter,
I personally find that operating Charlize at slightly above 12V (again...not too much higher) gives better dynamic. 🙂
Cheers,
VT4C
Hi Peter,
I personally find that operating Charlize at slightly above 12V (again...not too much higher) gives better dynamic. 🙂
Cheers,
VT4C
peterphan said:
Thanks, guys! I'll start looking around for some higher voltage sources to compare with the Skynet.
You may not have to! There is a little trimpot near the output pins. Carefully adjust it while you measure the voltage. I believe it will go to 13 volts!
Nuuk said:
I have always thought this was the case Roger! I think the class-T amps, like the inverted GC's require a low impedance pot/attenuator, or a buffer between them and a higher value pot.
I am surprised when I see people operating a NOS DAC (like Monica2) and a class-T amp (Charlize) with only a volume control between the two. The NOS DACs (in my experience) work much better into at least a 20K load while the class-T amps prefer 10K.
Hi NUUK, have you discussed this with Yeo at all?
It's just that he insists that 50K is a minimum, that's probably why there are so many people doing it!
You have given me some good insight into impedance matching but it all get's very cunfusing when the actual manufacturer says something different.
Yes you are right, Yeo uses 50K! I can't remember where I got the idea that we should use 10K but it was some time around doing the class-T shootout for TNT.
I have been puzzled over the last year when people have reported using Charlize and Monica2 together with just a pot but this explains it.
Impedance matching aside, I still contend that Charlize and her 'friends' sound better with an active preamp! 😉
I have been puzzled over the last year when people have reported using Charlize and Monica2 together with just a pot but this explains it.
Impedance matching aside, I still contend that Charlize and her 'friends' sound better with an active preamp! 😉
Nuuk said:
Hmmm, when you say 'pre-amp' I suppose a simple buffer circuit would also do the same job? I know you like the HDAM jobbie but they are far too expensive for my blood. 😱
Is the 'pre-amp' just for lowering the impedance or does it have another purpose in your opinion? Are you talking about tone controls? 🙁
Cheers
Lee
You can build a simple buffer that will also work well and no you don't need tone controls. I built a simple preamp to go between Monica and Charlize. It works off an SMPS PSU making it relatively simple to build.
Full details of that system can be found here.
If you try the design above, note that the OPA134 was chosen as it sounds very good with the 12 volt rails of the SMPS. The OPA627 originally specified does not work well at those lower voltages.
Nobody seems able to offer a rational explanation for why amps like the class-Ts and GCs sound better with an active stage before them but they do. 😉
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Full details of that system can be found here.
If you try the design above, note that the OPA134 was chosen as it sounds very good with the 12 volt rails of the SMPS. The OPA627 originally specified does not work well at those lower voltages.
Nobody seems able to offer a rational explanation for why amps like the class-Ts and GCs sound better with an active stage before them but they do. 😉
OK...so...If you would humour me for a little longer please 😱
I'm not using a Monica but a PS1 and I wonder if this has the same effect?
originally posted here:
thread
Would this allow me to then put a lower value pot before the Charlize?..... and get the low volume detail I'm looking for?
I'm even using the same speakers as 'P' is using!
I'm not using a Monica but a PS1 and I wonder if this has the same effect?
originally posted here:
thread
Would this allow me to then put a lower value pot before the Charlize?..... and get the low volume detail I'm looking for?
I'm even using the same speakers as 'P' is using!
Attachments
Skynet Trimpot
Terrific; thanks, Nuuk! To the left of the output pins, I see a small blue square with a screw in it. It's labeled "VR1" on the PCB; I assume this means "voltage regulator 1". Am I right? I also see that my Skynet's VR1 has a thin drop of green, shiny material on the screw. I'm guessing this is Lock-tite applied at the factory to "lock" the voltage to the correct setting. Is it okay to just force the screw to twist or is there some solvent you recommend?
Will the TA2020 chip need a heatsink if I run it at 13 volts?
-Peter
P.S.: apologies if this is getting off topic. I promise to post my findings of how the voltage tweak makes Charlize sound!
Terrific; thanks, Nuuk! To the left of the output pins, I see a small blue square with a screw in it. It's labeled "VR1" on the PCB; I assume this means "voltage regulator 1". Am I right? I also see that my Skynet's VR1 has a thin drop of green, shiny material on the screw. I'm guessing this is Lock-tite applied at the factory to "lock" the voltage to the correct setting. Is it okay to just force the screw to twist or is there some solvent you recommend?
Will the TA2020 chip need a heatsink if I run it at 13 volts?
-Peter
P.S.: apologies if this is getting off topic. I promise to post my findings of how the voltage tweak makes Charlize sound!