Hi all,
I have a little bit of decision paralysis at the moment due to not finding a product that does exactly what I want.
The MiniDSP Flex seems like a nice little unit (if not a bit overpriced) but only accomodates for a stereo pair of two-way active crossover speakers. I am hoping to be able to scrape together a third pair of channels and I wondered if any of my proposed configs would come with any negative impact. I already have a MiniDSP 10x10 with a stereo/2 channel SPDIF output so it got me thinking.
1. If I run a SPDIF signal into the 10x10 SPDIF in and use one pair of its DACs/filters for the woofer I could then route/daisy chain the SPDIF straight out untouched to the SPDIF in on the MiniDSP Flex and use the stereo pairs for mid/tweeter. My reasoning is that it's a bit more important to have the mid and high with lower noise and distortion and the 10x10 is a bit long in the tooth now.
2. Split the SPDIF source and run parallel DSPs.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-10x10-hd
Would there be any degradation after the source signal has been upscaled by the 10x10 only to be processed again by the Flex?
Any thoughts and opinions are welcome!
Cheers! 🙂
I have a little bit of decision paralysis at the moment due to not finding a product that does exactly what I want.
The MiniDSP Flex seems like a nice little unit (if not a bit overpriced) but only accomodates for a stereo pair of two-way active crossover speakers. I am hoping to be able to scrape together a third pair of channels and I wondered if any of my proposed configs would come with any negative impact. I already have a MiniDSP 10x10 with a stereo/2 channel SPDIF output so it got me thinking.
1. If I run a SPDIF signal into the 10x10 SPDIF in and use one pair of its DACs/filters for the woofer I could then route/daisy chain the SPDIF straight out untouched to the SPDIF in on the MiniDSP Flex and use the stereo pairs for mid/tweeter. My reasoning is that it's a bit more important to have the mid and high with lower noise and distortion and the 10x10 is a bit long in the tooth now.
2. Split the SPDIF source and run parallel DSPs.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-10x10-hd
Would there be any degradation after the source signal has been upscaled by the 10x10 only to be processed again by the Flex?
Any thoughts and opinions are welcome!
Cheers! 🙂
Looks like if you split the spdif you will have the same signal in both ends. I am not familiar with the MiniDSP 10 to know if the spdif output is processed or a bypass, but option two makes more sense for me. both outputs from the optical led should be bit perfect copies and synched in time. The reasons to chose 1 would be to avoid more hardware ( the optical "splitter").
The SPDIF (or optical) signal would go through the 10x10 processing routing matrix and now I think about it any room correction would have to be done at this stage before it reached the flex so that it applies to all drivers.
So, I suppose option 1. is the only viable solution in terms of putting together a three-way with the two units that will have a global EQ.
So, I suppose option 1. is the only viable solution in terms of putting together a three-way with the two units that will have a global EQ.
Get a toslink splitter for peace of mind. If you have short cables you can get away with a passive version.
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If you want to do Dirac room correction in the Flex, put the stereo signal into the Flex first with two ouput: low and (mid+high) and do the xover between mid and high in the 10x10. Then running the Dirac in the Flex (which is what I think you intend) it takes care of the whole bandwidth.
Jan
Jan
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Thanks Jan, yes, the 10x10 has SPDIF in and out so I can have the low coming out of the 10x10 DAC and the mid and high coming from the Flex DACs. I'm not going to pay for the dirac option as I am quite happy with my own corrections and am a little sceptical of the expense.
I am wondering if having has the signal processed through two DSPs (although not going in to analogue domain) will the signal be effected negatively?
I am wondering if having has the signal processed through two DSPs (although not going in to analogue domain) will the signal be effected negatively?
all processing has an increase of noise in the signal plus the possibility of jitter errors, bit flips and all other types of artifacts that may happen, plus the delay in the processing of the signal from one unit to the other, but in all practicality, the effect would more than likely would be mininal to null. If you think about it, most of the recorded music goes through a combination of plugins and processing equipment.
A friend of mine has a 11 channel home theater with more that 10 subs, he sets them up by blocks in the minidsp HD and uses trinov to adjust the the delay of the subs to be synch on time. Not the same situation as you but it has a certain similarity.
Yes, you make a good point, thanks!
The more I write this all down and think about it the more and more I think this is a lot of effort to go to. I wish the flex had 6 channels or they still made the NanoDIGI. The flex would be great for my current two way setup but futureproofing is always on my mind!
The more I write this all down and think about it the more and more I think this is a lot of effort to go to. I wish the flex had 6 channels or they still made the NanoDIGI. The flex would be great for my current two way setup but futureproofing is always on my mind!
You've not clearly stated your goal here. You're trying to make a 3 way crossover, correct?
I strongly agree with Jan (above). Set the Flex up as your "preamp" - if only for the remote control! See my DadCad drawing; attached.
And dude, I say this with love, but you are dead wrong about Dirac. Spend the extra for that and it will change your audio life. And suddenly you will see the Flex as quite a bargain. Good luck with your project.
I strongly agree with Jan (above). Set the Flex up as your "preamp" - if only for the remote control! See my DadCad drawing; attached.
And dude, I say this with love, but you are dead wrong about Dirac. Spend the extra for that and it will change your audio life. And suddenly you will see the Flex as quite a bargain. Good luck with your project.
Attachments
Thanks, just to clarify, I am trying to avoid using the 10x10 for the mid/tweet application. It's noisy and is not sporting up to date hardware.
As I mentioned, my reasoning is the Flex would be a better shout for mid/tweeter applications where our hearing range is more sensitive and the 10x10 can handle the woofer (circa 500hz and down).
I'll certainly give Dirac another look, there are of course opinions out there running totally contrary to yours. Luckily you can purchase the license later which is what I would do.
As I mentioned, my reasoning is the Flex would be a better shout for mid/tweeter applications where our hearing range is more sensitive and the 10x10 can handle the woofer (circa 500hz and down).
I'll certainly give Dirac another look, there are of course opinions out there running totally contrary to yours. Luckily you can purchase the license later which is what I would do.
Nothing to add about the trade-offs all the different options (Though I agree with Jan and cvanc)
I find it very puzzling - and frustrating - that a new product, in 2022 - can only handle two way crossovers - when their nano DG from? at least a decade ago could do three-ways. while the Flex has three versions of differing I/ O
I wonder what the rationale was?
I find it very puzzling - and frustrating - that a new product, in 2022 - can only handle two way crossovers - when their nano DG from? at least a decade ago could do three-ways. while the Flex has three versions of differing I/ O
I wonder what the rationale was?
Well, yeah, the Internet has disagreed with me before lol, no worries. This is all in the spirit of conversation, please let's continue.
What I'm trying to say is you are over-worried about smaller (but quite real) issues. I've never been to your place and I've never heard your rig. But I know for sure what your worst component is because it's the same one as for me and for everyone reading this:
The weakest component, by far, is the damn room.
I looked at the 10x10 specs. You're right, it's a bit cruder internally than the Flex. But that just isn't problem #1 here, and it should not be the variable that forces a system drawing that "puts it as far away from my delicate signals as possible".
I'm sure you see my personal belief that room correction is a huge issue. I think a lot of audiophiles basically own Ferraris but don't understand their room is just loose gravel. Under these conditions you can drive but you can not race. Room correction is pavement, and with it you can race instead of drive. Does that make sense?
Hey how about posting some photos of the speakers? Thanks.
What I'm trying to say is you are over-worried about smaller (but quite real) issues. I've never been to your place and I've never heard your rig. But I know for sure what your worst component is because it's the same one as for me and for everyone reading this:
The weakest component, by far, is the damn room.
I looked at the 10x10 specs. You're right, it's a bit cruder internally than the Flex. But that just isn't problem #1 here, and it should not be the variable that forces a system drawing that "puts it as far away from my delicate signals as possible".
I'm sure you see my personal belief that room correction is a huge issue. I think a lot of audiophiles basically own Ferraris but don't understand their room is just loose gravel. Under these conditions you can drive but you can not race. Room correction is pavement, and with it you can race instead of drive. Does that make sense?
Hey how about posting some photos of the speakers? Thanks.
@TNT That's interesting! My priority is B, A then C. Do you have a rationale for your order?
@cvanc I've treated my room as best as I can in my front room. WAF is maxed out! In any event, I am quite happy with that and although I understand where you are coming from my focus at thge moment is the DSP.
Here's my current set up:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10-cd-horn-2-way.375829/post-6937641
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10-cd-horn-2-way.375829/post-6950419
Powered by:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3e-tpa3251-lrs-350-36-hifi2000-build.364960/post-6470949
...and a MiniDSP 8x8 in a rack chassis with the digi-fp board for digital in/outs (making it the 10x10 without their expensive chassis and front panel business).
@cvanc I've treated my room as best as I can in my front room. WAF is maxed out! In any event, I am quite happy with that and although I understand where you are coming from my focus at thge moment is the DSP.
Here's my current set up:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10-cd-horn-2-way.375829/post-6937641
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10-cd-horn-2-way.375829/post-6950419
Powered by:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3e-tpa3251-lrs-350-36-hifi2000-build.364960/post-6470949
...and a MiniDSP 8x8 in a rack chassis with the digi-fp board for digital in/outs (making it the 10x10 without their expensive chassis and front panel business).
I have just come to the conclusion after a lot of thinking and listening through the years that the top part of the spectrum is really not so critical as long as some decent linear level is present - and it doesnt need to go that high really - 15k is abolutley OK to have a fantastically realistic reproduction experience. The foundation of the spectra is much more important to get right as I see (hear) it.
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So, not being a proud person (lol) I decided to give the Dirac standalone plugin for windows a go with their 14 day trial.
So far, hmmm, it's a hell of a lot brighter and bass is more controlled (less noticeable stray peaks and troughs with bassline). I went for the wide setting and watched Stranger Things with the wife tonight. It certainly gave it a better image from our opposing sides of the couch. Obviously I need to live with and without it to see if it has value. £280!!! I need to track down a discount code.
It ha made the adjustment of 0.1ms delay to my right channel and when I toggle this off/on it's hard to decided which sounds better. It makes zero difference off axis, of course.
The one thing that gets me is that it doesn't feel right. Like when Hank Hill resorted to taking Bobby to a game resort here they could shoot domesticated deer, I feel like I have gone to a lot of bother to build speakers, ponitifcate over the crossover and then let some magic software tell me how it should sound. I know it has user curves but I feel a little out of control.
I am, however, completely aware of the ridiculousnous of denying oneself pleasure because of superficial personal vanity. When I used to write music I would only use a loop or sample if I found and harvested it myself but in the end the listener had no idea about this.
I also wasn't sure where to point the mic so I just pointed it foward.
Anyway, food for thought.