I’m thinking about getting five Alpair-10P’s and being done with the surround madness. I think it would be great for multi-channel music too. No crossover, moderate sized boxes, not a lot of money, and good sound.What are the drivers you have?
You won’t find a decent coax that cheap, but this FR is close (and really a siuperb driver, especially when price takeninto consideration.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-fullrange/markaudio-chn110-silver-6.75-full-range/
dave
Yeah, I'm definitely stuck in the surround madness right now. What drives me nuts is the amount of low quality audio in many of the streaming services.
Scientifically-or performance wise, most likely. But for home theater my problem is that I have a pair of floor standing speakers similar to those-minus the backloaded horn. https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2095
Instead, the midrange horn will sit atop this low midrange/midwoofer.
And I have three Rythmik F12 subs. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html
The 65" TV will be between the front speakers. And I'll be sitting 10 to 12.5 ft from the TV.
I realize that my front speakers are probably not the ideal for building a 3.1 home theater for DVD and BD movie sound, though what else but a center speaker with these cabinet dimensions to avoid blocking the screen?
The mains will be at least 3 ft tall, the 65” Sony TV height is 32.75”, my seat will be 10 to 12.5 ft away. And I want my view at least zero degrees of the screen’s center; ideally ~ -85 degrees. Don't get how people can be comfortable craning their necks to otherwise watch TV. And elevating my Drexel mid century low back swivel/rocker chair how many inches off the floor would hardly be a practical option. Obviously, then the height of another such speaker would be in the way.
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No problem, whatever works for you !! The perfect LCR comes with projection on an acoustically transparent screen (vs TV) on a baffle wall, which is not very DIY friendly. However, once you have it, it becomes possible to neatly hide all ugly speakers behind the screen.
Using two speakers (above/below or to the left/right of the TV) could also give a phantom centre but might also cause lobing problems due to the large dimensions of the TV. Also, there was once a TV whose LCD panel vibrated to make sound as well, but I think it never took off ...
Agreed! Assumed a typical 'reclining' living room sofa, recliner, etc., seating with TV tilted down as required to get on axis viewing. The only way I could look up for any length of time is if I wore the big padded collar I had when I got my neck broken.
From experience a 'sound' choice and recommend at minimum a 500 Hz XO and preferably 250-300 Hz since we ideally want the analog or at least digital phone BW to be 'billiard table ' flat for highest speech intelligibility.
My early 70s Drexel chair minus the seat cushion.
Actually, all things considered, sound quality from the internal speakers of these two 65” OLED (2023) and QLED (2024) candidates have received considerable praise. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-a95l-xr-65a95l , though audio measurements here tell a different story. https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/a95l-oled#test_202 So, even just for dialogue, its response, let alone its tonality compared to the mains, would make it a rather poor option for a center speaker.
At least rtings.com measurements show far better audio quality from Sony’s QLED. https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/bravia-9-qled#test_202
However, I have no AVR or Marantz-like processor, so connectivity issues will likely preclude its use with a MCH DAC like these
https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm
https://www.merging.com/products/interfaces/hapi
and then applying room correction, like DIRAC Live.
Yes, an acoustically transparent (really transparent?) screen seems like a great solution as any speaker which otherwise would obscure view of the screen could be placed behind it. But any recommended projector model would have to be a Sony, as I have ~ $2K in Sony card points-AND they expire in December!! That would then allow me to spend another ~$2.3K plus tax.
However, no way would I personally attempt mounting a $$$$ projector on a wall, much less on the ceiling. It’s $300. to have Best Buy do it, plus the cost of this acoustically transparent screen-though where much beyond ~77” would be too big for my room. But at least the center speaker would be out of the way behind the screen.
In Pierre’s 20 ft x 20 room, the fan noise from Pierre’s projector must be very low (given the room’s ambient brightness) and/or must be located quite a distance from behind his seat; see posts 15266, 15276. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/beyond-the-ariel.100392/page-764
My triangular ceiling peaks at 11 ft but my room’s only 20 ft x 11, and then uselessly proceeds across 4 ft wide hallway and into a 10 ft x 9 kitchen. Using projectors do present more complicated connectivity issues, and while I’d have control of my PC’s internal BD drive via JRiver and wireless keyboard and mouse, using my lovely Pioneer LX500 BD player would likely no longer be practical, given placement versus remote control issues.
Presumably, Pierre was able to keep the HDMI cable length under 45 ft.
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/how-long-can-hdmi-run.htm
Of course, having no center channel speaker Pierre’s not faced with any such integration issues.
I’ve never owned a projector and compared to the Sony A95L TV, how well its processor can upscale my large DVD and 2K BD collection to make them look their best is another important question. Of course, I’d hardly expect perfection, but a thorough demonstration would be essential when considering hardware like this, and even if professionally installed.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-v...e-4k-sxrd-panel-black/6506679.p?skuId=6506679
Maybe Troy can propose a suitable center speaker alternative.
Attachments
Historically, A cheap white bed sheet (100, 150 thread count?) tightly stretched over an obviously rigid/braced frame work, though nowadays one can buy (presumably) superior materials.
Got it for doing the center channel speaker.
Speaking of the Altec midwoofers, I merely followed the lead of Gary Dahl who designed those 3 cu ft sealed cabinets in the above video. His chief aim I believe was to ensure maximal enjoyment of the Altec 416-8B sound by restricting low end response to minimize distortion. Troy Crowe’s measurements certainly show that this goal was achieved, at least down to 100Hz at 90db.
But is it sensible to ask about how low might you expect distortion to remain inaudible in those 3 cu ft cabinets down to around what frequency and at what SPL @ ~ 10 ft? I ask this chiefly to be sort of forewarned about possibly (?) having to hear more of my subs than the Altecs if they have to be crossed too high with them. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html
The real cost lies in that you'd need a separate room, acoustic treatments and a baffle wall.
The nowadays material seems to be spandex / lycra fabric, breathable and AT, easily verified on the spot using a cellphone. One could white / silver, get it locally, for almost any length, for really small money. Silver gives a better black level with a smaller projector of lesser brightness.
TTOMK Altec never published any distortion measurements nor have I or anyone else ever commented on them beyond the 'drawing out' of the bass line as they go beyond Xmax, which as group find it euphonic. Go past this point and run the risk of 'cocking' the VC in the gap = rapid thermal power failure.
My dual 20 Hz Fs 515B (Alnico) cabs then tuned to 20 Hz and 'smooth as a babies bottom' to the then youthful women I used to listen for anything they found 'off', but only noticed any/a lot with the instrument drivers, which of course is designed in.
The only sealed I did were the horn compression chambers, which of course were tuned well above Fs, so never an issue.
Hmm, well, Altec engineers told me to study/reverse engineer the pioneer's designs and one thing I learned was that if one made XOs based on slope orders that gave a min. -24 dB/Fs (Fb), then all was well, so 20 Hz Fs (Fb)*2^4 = 320 Hz/1st order, etc, so assuming his is a 2nd order sealed (0.707 Qt), then it's at least -24 dB/Fb, ergo the low distortion
and whatever XO point/slope you use will combine to make a higher order acoustic slope.
FWIW, I use(d) 120 Hz/2nd with nary a problem (including the occasional child, inconsiderate adult's abuse) simply because my only digital option was DIY from a magazine article .
My dual 20 Hz Fs 515B (Alnico) cabs then tuned to 20 Hz and 'smooth as a babies bottom' to the then youthful women I used to listen for anything they found 'off', but only noticed any/a lot with the instrument drivers, which of course is designed in.
The only sealed I did were the horn compression chambers, which of course were tuned well above Fs, so never an issue.
Hmm, well, Altec engineers told me to study/reverse engineer the pioneer's designs and one thing I learned was that if one made XOs based on slope orders that gave a min. -24 dB/Fs (Fb), then all was well, so 20 Hz Fs (Fb)*2^4 = 320 Hz/1st order, etc, so assuming his is a 2nd order sealed (0.707 Qt), then it's at least -24 dB/Fb, ergo the low distortion
and whatever XO point/slope you use will combine to make a higher order acoustic slope.
FWIW, I use(d) 120 Hz/2nd with nary a problem (including the occasional child, inconsiderate adult's abuse) simply because my only digital option was DIY from a magazine article .