I interviewed for a job at a stereo shop back in the 80's. The interview seemed to be going well until they asked me if I had any opinions about certain products. I said "no", and then I joked, "well maybe the $100 RCA cables." Needless to say, I didn't get the job.
Hello ProFi Guy.
I have been using CAT5 and CAT6 cable on compression driver horns for well over a decade. Because it is nearly free and I figured the combined conductor gage was more than sufficient so why not.
I have never noticed a change in the “sound” compared to any other decent copper wire.
Recently I noticed the twist ratios between the paired connectors is different in CAT6 at least. I pondered if that could have any effect when bonding pairs together and running more current through this type of wire than data likely does?
I also use this wire for line level interconnects for long runs as well.
Barry.
I have been using CAT5 and CAT6 cable on compression driver horns for well over a decade. Because it is nearly free and I figured the combined conductor gage was more than sufficient so why not.
I have never noticed a change in the “sound” compared to any other decent copper wire.
Recently I noticed the twist ratios between the paired connectors is different in CAT6 at least. I pondered if that could have any effect when bonding pairs together and running more current through this type of wire than data likely does?
I also use this wire for line level interconnects for long runs as well.
Barry.
@1audiohack Your observations are in line with mine regarding the CAT5 wire.
I feel the insulator/dielectric in the wire on low impedance runs is much less of an influence than on higher impedance sources.
The main inquiry for me is the interweaving of individual insulated conductors.
My main go to wire for anything under 150W is 14 awg low strand count copper.
For midrange and tweeter applications I use 16 awg. Usually solid core, sometimes with heavy Ag plating on higher sensitivity HF drivers. This makes an audible difference in conjuction with a Zobel or other impedance control.
I feel the insulator/dielectric in the wire on low impedance runs is much less of an influence than on higher impedance sources.
The main inquiry for me is the interweaving of individual insulated conductors.
My main go to wire for anything under 150W is 14 awg low strand count copper.
For midrange and tweeter applications I use 16 awg. Usually solid core, sometimes with heavy Ag plating on higher sensitivity HF drivers. This makes an audible difference in conjuction with a Zobel or other impedance control.
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Before we settled on single strands we tried all sorts of recipes with many more strands.
Note: Speakers, amplifiers, and what connects them are a system. Same cable in differnt systems will sound different (or not depending)
An anecdote to illustrate: Big Fostex FExxx like to be in horns and driven with high output impedance amplifiers. At one show they were using low output impedance amplifiers (big Japanese exotica), so theyusedntungstun speaker cables.
dave
Note: Speakers, amplifiers, and what connects them are a system. Same cable in differnt systems will sound different (or not depending)
An anecdote to illustrate: Big Fostex FExxx like to be in horns and driven with high output impedance amplifiers. At one show they were using low output impedance amplifiers (big Japanese exotica), so theyusedntungstun speaker cables.
dave
In what sense they are exaggerated? They are actually to the point and coming from authority on acoustics..
@twinter Thats alot of reading. Not sure if it will persuade me into thinking otherwise, but a good read nonetheless.
@planet10 I agree that 'loose" amps will be more sensitive to cable application, especially on high sensitivity fullrange speakers. Anything you do in line with these speakers will be noticeable.
@planet10 I agree that 'loose" amps will be more sensitive to cable application, especially on high sensitivity fullrange speakers. Anything you do in line with these speakers will be noticeable.
I think profiguy makes a good point. There's of course people who swap cables with various resistance/capacitance/inductance to get some kind of tone control effect, but most people I think just want their cables to pass along the signal without screwing with it
Corrosion can affect a cable's properties as to alter its performance, so it seems worthwhile to take measures to prevent that from happening. Having each strand individually jacketed absolutely reduces the risk of corrosion, which makes it very well suited for application as speaker cable.
Should it not be as simple as that? I don't see why profiguy's post has prompted all this other extraneous talk about exotic cables and other snake oil crap
Corrosion can affect a cable's properties as to alter its performance, so it seems worthwhile to take measures to prevent that from happening. Having each strand individually jacketed absolutely reduces the risk of corrosion, which makes it very well suited for application as speaker cable.
Should it not be as simple as that? I don't see why profiguy's post has prompted all this other extraneous talk about exotic cables and other snake oil crap
https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil/
Cables are not snake oil, more of a necessary evil in my opinion. For those who don't believe there is an audible difference, I keep some cables at home that I would have thrown away or given away a long time ago. There is everything there, speaker cables, power cables, interconnects, USB, SPDIF, Toslink ... one big drawer full off cables. Some were bought, some I made myself. There is something for everyone. 😁
With the VDH CS122 I got the best result by doubling the cable to each speaker. The length is 2.5 m. So not biwiring specifically for bass & mid+high, but two parallel wires for the whole range. I also tried the more expensive VDH D352, but I was not satisfied. A cheaper CS122 cable gave a better result.
Cables are not snake oil, more of a necessary evil in my opinion. For those who don't believe there is an audible difference, I keep some cables at home that I would have thrown away or given away a long time ago. There is everything there, speaker cables, power cables, interconnects, USB, SPDIF, Toslink ... one big drawer full off cables. Some were bought, some I made myself. There is something for everyone. 😁
With the VDH CS122 I got the best result by doubling the cable to each speaker. The length is 2.5 m. So not biwiring specifically for bass & mid+high, but two parallel wires for the whole range. I also tried the more expensive VDH D352, but I was not satisfied. A cheaper CS122 cable gave a better result.
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Sure, not inherently. Just like how mineral oil isn't inherently snake oil. But when you charge $500 for it, and promise consumers it will revolutionize their sound, yes it is snake oil. A cable that does its job without mucking up your sound is not expensive, and doesn't require exotic manufacturing techniques. I imagine we're on the same page there. Just want to be clear on my meaning when I say snake oil
Earl actually felt it necessary to modify the amplifiers he is using. He takes care of crossover distortion and other forms of higher order harmonic distortion. He appreciates the benefit of printing a class AB amplifier onto a single substrate.
He has had to call people out for misquoting him over this before. Feel free to check this for yourself.
At these high voltages and low frequencies, the cable has by far (I'd say orders of magintude) the least influence on your listening experience.
You could use an un-bent metal coat hanger, and it will easily pass an A-B-test. That's fine for short distances, otherwise the resistance will drop the voltage too much (and you need to turn up your amplifier, which might sound different then). For high wattage speakers or longer cables, you need to take care of having enough diameter/low resistance, so quality copper is the way to go.
However I can totally understand buyers of expensive cables. They usually look and feel much nicer than a regular cable, and that adds to the listeing pleasure.
Technically that extra money is better spent on other things.
You could use an un-bent metal coat hanger, and it will easily pass an A-B-test. That's fine for short distances, otherwise the resistance will drop the voltage too much (and you need to turn up your amplifier, which might sound different then). For high wattage speakers or longer cables, you need to take care of having enough diameter/low resistance, so quality copper is the way to go.
However I can totally understand buyers of expensive cables. They usually look and feel much nicer than a regular cable, and that adds to the listeing pleasure.
Technically that extra money is better spent on other things.
I agree with this. I have nice cables, made by me, quality connectors, freshly made connections, crossovers checked for dry joints etc etc and after that I'd guess you'd need to spend a lot of money to get any noticeable difference. Whereas building or buying a new amplifier or speakers will yield an improvement in sound quality order of magnitude greater than a new cable.
Unless you buy one of the fancy mains cables to go with the speaker cable... then all bets are off 😉
Fancy mains cables can make profound difference and nobody knows why . Here are the Cat cables from Crimson. They even mark directions . Interconnect provided Steve Huntley of Resolution Audio when I bought Opus 21 CD player from him. He said it is very good for the price and he was right
There was a cheap line of US cables popular among Audiokarma crowd. On a wave of popular demand they ( he actually ) came up with $1k upscale interconnect model. It got great reviews because what doesnt ? I bought it used . Didn't like it because it had recessed midrange and was sounding " German " My friend was looking for an upscale interconnect and since he is a janitor making $18 per hour I though the " bling " of the price and reviews will make for an easy sale . NOPE , He returned it saying that it has recessed midrange and is sounding " German " Here you have your " theories " and scientific proofs .
There was a cheap line of US cables popular among Audiokarma crowd. On a wave of popular demand they ( he actually ) came up with $1k upscale interconnect model. It got great reviews because what doesnt ? I bought it used . Didn't like it because it had recessed midrange and was sounding " German " My friend was looking for an upscale interconnect and since he is a janitor making $18 per hour I though the " bling " of the price and reviews will make for an easy sale . NOPE , He returned it saying that it has recessed midrange and is sounding " German " Here you have your " theories " and scientific proofs .
Attachments
Cat 5 and 6 have all the pairs with different twist pitch by design. The reason is two pairs with the same twist pitch can couple magnetically. The four pitches guarantee that all four pair are magnetically orthogonal.
I have never seen foamed dielectric with variability in density. Any variation in density that changes the capacitance will also change the characteristic impedance causing reflections as well as variation in propagation velocity. BTW, foamed dielectric generally runs a relative permittivity of about 1.05, solid plastics run around 2.7 to 3.
I have made and used a 4 ohm impedance cable to drive a 4 ohm resistive load in liquid helium, I needed a 40 volt 50 uSec pulse driven by an old tigersaurus amplifier and it had a real sweet 10 uSec risetime and no ringing. The amp didn't oscillate because the load was completely resistive well out to several hundred khz so never unloaded within the amp unity gain bw.
Because tweeters will unload below some amps unity gain bw, loading the amp with higher capacity cables could run you into trouble. A zobel could prevent that of course.
Due to the load variation, I would recommend going with a minimum of 25 ohm cable z. as it wont have so much capacitance.
Cat 5 and 6 are 100 ohm.
John
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When a source and amp are both 3 prong, the low frequency of the signal will return to the source via the ground conductor until a frequency breakpoint defined by the ground loop inductance, resistance, and the interconnect cable braid resistance and impedance.
There is another breakpoint if two interconnects are used, until that point is reached, the two IC loop can trap magfield interference.
John
There is another breakpoint if two interconnects are used, until that point is reached, the two IC loop can trap magfield interference.
John
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My favourite IEMs are the MP145. None of the numerous online measurements using state of the art test equipment hinted that in my high RF environment the output stages of Micromega, Topping and SMSL devices would all go unstable, and that the effect varies in intensity across three different headphone cable types. Reliance on faith cuts both ways.
Soundstage imaging can certainly be altered by cables. But I do not worry about that.
I use #12 awg for 100 foot runs, 50, and 25 foot as well, and mix them depending on venue. At home I use zip, lamp cord, whatever I want.
I do not sit fixed in the sweet spot to listen to music, but I'd rather relax eating dinner or drinking wine with another, music in the background.
What I do worry about is how threads like this can turn into intolerance of other's opinions, as the last 3 posts are starting to do.
Please refrain from that.
Thanks
John
PS. i did initially say 4 posts but dropped to three.
I use #12 awg for 100 foot runs, 50, and 25 foot as well, and mix them depending on venue. At home I use zip, lamp cord, whatever I want.
I do not sit fixed in the sweet spot to listen to music, but I'd rather relax eating dinner or drinking wine with another, music in the background.
What I do worry about is how threads like this can turn into intolerance of other's opinions, as the last 3 posts are starting to do.
Please refrain from that.
Thanks
John
PS. i did initially say 4 posts but dropped to three.
I actually also listen off center , mostly as a background and don't care for audiophile quality and never did and I don't use a zipcord only because I have the cables from the time my hearing was good enough to hear the effect of the cables. It's one thing to have the upscale cables in your system and I did have Kubala - Sosna second from the top set of speaker cables and interconnects, upper range Purist Cables , Top Kimber ( the dealer was my friend ) and Set of Audio Note SPX speaker ( bi wire ) and patch cords , and dismiss the whole cable mania and entirely another thing dismiss it off the hat. Would I buy such cables for retail prices ? Never, but here we are talking about Cat5 and the wire is cheap enough for anyone to try and make up ones mind without breaking a sweat.