I've been looking at various DIY speaker cable options for frequencies above 100 hz. Generally, I don't place alot of weight on the influence of speaker wire out of obvious reasons and always felt that anything more exotic than basic 14 - 16 awg stranded copper wire was wasted money for less than 150 W of total power through 10 ft or so.
A few months ago, I started dabbling with CAT5E network wire using several variations of interleaving the separate strands. I've actually noticed some subtle differences above 200 hz. I initially felt this may stem from the variations in capacitance and inductance.
Other theories behind possible audible differences may be that each strand being separately insulated may help reduce the effects of inconsistent ininterconnectivity among the separate strands of copper, especially if corrosion is present
Has anyone else tried some of this, either with CAT5/6 or other types of multi conductor wire? I know this tends to be a controversial topic, but I've consistently heard very small improvements with this method, so I thought I'd mention it.
Most network cables have individual 23 - 24 awg solid copper strands. That will get you the equivalent of 17 - 18 awg when combining the strands of one cable to form 2 conductors. That would/should be enough for most shorter runs and average power levels.
A few months ago, I started dabbling with CAT5E network wire using several variations of interleaving the separate strands. I've actually noticed some subtle differences above 200 hz. I initially felt this may stem from the variations in capacitance and inductance.
Other theories behind possible audible differences may be that each strand being separately insulated may help reduce the effects of inconsistent ininterconnectivity among the separate strands of copper, especially if corrosion is present
Has anyone else tried some of this, either with CAT5/6 or other types of multi conductor wire? I know this tends to be a controversial topic, but I've consistently heard very small improvements with this method, so I thought I'd mention it.
Most network cables have individual 23 - 24 awg solid copper strands. That will get you the equivalent of 17 - 18 awg when combining the strands of one cable to form 2 conductors. That would/should be enough for most shorter runs and average power levels.
Best cable I done is very high quality copper, best I found copper from cryogenic electro magnet working at 0°K.
But if you can find copper from
thermocouple T CuNi, good Cu and dielectric.
Network cat5/6 cables have not enough high quality Cu and dielectric pvc IMHO and according to my tests.
The dielectric quality is also important.
But if you can find copper from
thermocouple T CuNi, good Cu and dielectric.
Network cat5/6 cables have not enough high quality Cu and dielectric pvc IMHO and according to my tests.
The dielectric quality is also important.
Do a quick search on the forum or just a general Google will show you a bunch of examples of speaker wire using CAT-5/6 as the base material.
I played with it at one point, brading 3 sections together to get an equivalent of about 13-14 gauge. Made for an interesting looking cable.
At this point, it's whatever floats your boat. I made mine b/c at the time I had a bunch of scrap cable I got through my friendly IT guy at work and I wondered if they would impact anything. Actually to be honest I did it b/c I thought they looked cool. Still got them around in a box somewhere. I always thought about stripping the outer jacket off and re-brading with all the core wires exposed.
Have fun,
-b
I played with it at one point, brading 3 sections together to get an equivalent of about 13-14 gauge. Made for an interesting looking cable.
At this point, it's whatever floats your boat. I made mine b/c at the time I had a bunch of scrap cable I got through my friendly IT guy at work and I wondered if they would impact anything. Actually to be honest I did it b/c I thought they looked cool. Still got them around in a box somewhere. I always thought about stripping the outer jacket off and re-brading with all the core wires exposed.
Have fun,
-b
Should work. Take all the coloured ones together and then all the white-coloured.
Dielectric is foamed pe since at least end of last century. If you care about such things.
Dielectric is foamed pe since at least end of last century. If you care about such things.
At least RF stray in will be reduced 🙂
Be careful with selection of cable. Stranded and solid versions exist and some cables have iron in them! Also beware of copper clad aluminium cable. Various plastics are available including PTFE.
Maybe it is a good idea to not use RJ45 connectors for this purpose. LAN cable may function well for low power purposes but don’t expect miracles.
Be careful with selection of cable. Stranded and solid versions exist and some cables have iron in them! Also beware of copper clad aluminium cable. Various plastics are available including PTFE.
Maybe it is a good idea to not use RJ45 connectors for this purpose. LAN cable may function well for low power purposes but don’t expect miracles.
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Impedance for speakers are given as "nominal impedance" and may vary wildly. For 3 feet You have to calculate the sum of wire resistance (6 feet).
Most speakers are made for close to zero resistance from the amp, introducing extra impedance in the cables will alter the speaker response.
Be aware that loudspeakers with rapid changing (impedance) phase will be a current hungry load. 150W in 8 ohm load gives an RMS current of I=sqrt(P/R) = sqrt(150W/8ohm) = 4.33A, the double for 4ohm load.
I think You might be better off with braided multi-strand cables You can make Yourself - braiding 4 thick multi-strand wires. These will be less sensitive to electrical noise than unbraided cables.
Most speakers are made for close to zero resistance from the amp, introducing extra impedance in the cables will alter the speaker response.
Be aware that loudspeakers with rapid changing (impedance) phase will be a current hungry load. 150W in 8 ohm load gives an RMS current of I=sqrt(P/R) = sqrt(150W/8ohm) = 4.33A, the double for 4ohm load.
I think You might be better off with braided multi-strand cables You can make Yourself - braiding 4 thick multi-strand wires. These will be less sensitive to electrical noise than unbraided cables.
If the wire is already in the walls then you could justify using it, otherwise it makes no sense. It's designed for completely different frequencies and impedance. At speaker levels the benefits of twisting are negligible but the downside is twisting increases the overall length.
In my past I have used twisted pair cable and liked it. I looked for plenum rated bulk cable. This is usually ptfe insulated instead of pvc.
Here you go. Hailed as a one of the most neutral and natural sounding cheap cables. I didn't know what they are when I bought them used but they are not bad for my application. People around Resolution Audio , Tocaro, Rehdeko, DNM audio subculture like them
https://www.crimsonelectronics.com/cables.html
https://www.crimsonelectronics.com/cables.html
if you do build one from CAT wire, opt for the 5e to get teflon / PTFE coating.
i have made speaker cables in 8 strand twisted format (like KimberKable used to sell) and it worked well.
and I made nice interconnects with single strands for signal and ground, wrapped around a PTFE core from a coax cable.
i have made speaker cables in 8 strand twisted format (like KimberKable used to sell) and it worked well.
and I made nice interconnects with single strands for signal and ground, wrapped around a PTFE core from a coax cable.
You would be surprised the power an RJ45 can manage! We tested (*) our RJ45's (coupling cable to pcb) at 1000Vac between contacts and 1A continuous over all contacts for at least 30 minutes. But not at the same time mind you. 10A over all contacts during 1 minute as well if I remember.
(*) had to, this are UL specs.
Sometime in the noughties I tried a few speaker cables. I still had some cheap stranded copper cable, maybe 4mm2, that had once come with speakers I had ordered from a German mailorder speaker shop called Nubert. By the time I replaced it the ends were probably not entirely clean and quite oxidised, but even the next cable made me feel sorry for myself - the sound of the old cable was so bad, it must have distorted frequency response.
The next cable was some diy cat5e effort, it was probably this one but can’t be sure now. It neither offended nor impressed, but the bulkiness and inflexibility made it inconvenient to use.
I then happened upon a used Nordost Solarwind cable for a price I could afford, which I found much better. It was good enough to stop looking. Now, I am well aware that Nordost is one of the worst spouters of audiophile nonsense, also, the Solarwind was merely at the value end of their range back then, but I can happily live with it.
I should maybe cross reference a discussion we had on cables in the Elsinore thread, where Joe ended up recommending a rather affordable stranded cable, although I have never tried it.
The next cable was some diy cat5e effort, it was probably this one but can’t be sure now. It neither offended nor impressed, but the bulkiness and inflexibility made it inconvenient to use.
I then happened upon a used Nordost Solarwind cable for a price I could afford, which I found much better. It was good enough to stop looking. Now, I am well aware that Nordost is one of the worst spouters of audiophile nonsense, also, the Solarwind was merely at the value end of their range back then, but I can happily live with it.
I should maybe cross reference a discussion we had on cables in the Elsinore thread, where Joe ended up recommending a rather affordable stranded cable, although I have never tried it.
Any non-CCA copper lamp cord from the hardware store could stand up to a blind test.
Those who can't hear the difference in cables or are not even slightly annoyed while taking out good cable and substituting it with average cable are not qualified to talk about sound quality even if they are excellent electricians and women fall to their feet one after another 🙂
I'm honestly more concerned about the insulation some of these cables use. PVC is pretty lousy based on my tests and Teflon has a creep effect at (much) higher frequencies, unlikely to cause issues though.
The CCA junk some of these cables are made from are awful. I've also see ferrous cables as some mentioned. I find this in many lower grade clip leads.
Foamed PE isn't so bad, but I doesn't have consistent capacitance due to varying foaming density.
I've used regular old romex found in walls and its pretty good up to 14 awg. Thicker than that it loses its punch in the lower mids, likely due to higher insertion resistance. I have consistently found that solid wire beats stranded, but litz wire is superior to any type of conductor orientation. It does however depend on the weave pattern.
I don't see the need for anything thicker than 14 awg. It just becomes harder to work with and more expensive. Unless I'm dealing with more than 300W at 4 ohms, I use 14 awg. Even plate amps only need 14 awg for speakers if the length is only a few feet.
The CCA junk some of these cables are made from are awful. I've also see ferrous cables as some mentioned. I find this in many lower grade clip leads.
Foamed PE isn't so bad, but I doesn't have consistent capacitance due to varying foaming density.
I've used regular old romex found in walls and its pretty good up to 14 awg. Thicker than that it loses its punch in the lower mids, likely due to higher insertion resistance. I have consistently found that solid wire beats stranded, but litz wire is superior to any type of conductor orientation. It does however depend on the weave pattern.
I don't see the need for anything thicker than 14 awg. It just becomes harder to work with and more expensive. Unless I'm dealing with more than 300W at 4 ohms, I use 14 awg. Even plate amps only need 14 awg for speakers if the length is only a few feet.
But even those have their distinctive sound signature.
It's best to ignore any cable discussions.
Dr. Geddes ignores amplifiers saying that they all sound the same and receiver quality is all what's needed. And what are you going to say to that? He also says that you can pretty much ignore any LF turning and complicated modeling of LF response in speakers because room is going to **** it up anyway
It's best to ignore any cable discussions.
Dr. Geddes ignores amplifiers saying that they all sound the same and receiver quality is all what's needed. And what are you going to say to that? He also says that you can pretty much ignore any LF turning and complicated modeling of LF response in speakers because room is going to **** it up anyway
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