So this may seem very random, but I am an artist who is trying to capture the scent of electronics, new motherboards, old burnt out hardware, nostalgic e-materials -- think hot dust, ozone, phenolic resin, burnt plastic and metal, etc. To do this is fairly simple, I'm just absorbing the aroma molecules of discarded electronics using fat, but I want to make sure I'm not actually doing anything that would be harmful to inhale. I am a bit out of my depth with my knowledge of the dangers of these scent materials - does anyone know if inhaling these electronic smells is generally bad? Is there anything I should definitely avoid capturing, older electronics or specific materials for example? At the moment I''m concerned about VOC (volatile organic compounds) because those will likely be picked up the most. Thanks in advance!
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Welcome to the forum!
I know that hydrogen cyanide is a product of the combustion of synthetic polymers such as Mylar and Bakelite.
However, considering how many cyanides are in the atmosphere through the actions of burning petrol/diesel and smoking tobacco, your efforts probably pale into insignificance!
I know that hydrogen cyanide is a product of the combustion of synthetic polymers such as Mylar and Bakelite.
However, considering how many cyanides are in the atmosphere through the actions of burning petrol/diesel and smoking tobacco, your efforts probably pale into insignificance!
Thank you! There will be almost no heating as is is a cold, enfleurage, extraction technique I'm hoping will work for this application.
Absolutely, I'm going to continue to research and ask questions until I feel the risk is minimal.
FWIW I currently have Medically diagnosed EPOC, Emphysema, and have lost 41% of lung capacity after 50+ years building over 14000 amplifiers, some 8000-10000 speakers, spray painting said chassis and panels, silkscreening them , same with needed PCBs, etching them , cooking transformer varnish in ovens and similar Industrial attacks on my body.
Lung capacity can not be recovered, when breathing becomes hard I use Asthma type inhalers and Mometasone dry dust inhaler on crisis.
Never ever smoked, any kind, so all comes from breathing various kinds of industrial residues.
My former partner, similar work history although he focused more on PA, live Sound Studio work and Keyboards died 8 years ago from inoperable lung cancer.
He also never smoked.
Meaning: this stuff is nasty.
Admittedly my exposure was quite higher than average, way more than any casual hobbyist but presume equivalent to, say, a regular Chinese Factory worker.
Maybe Tubelab went through similar exposure during his Motorola days, same thing with other Forum members who worked in Industry on the hardware side of things.
Enfleurage is a "light* extraction method,safe when dealing with organic unprocessed material such as flowers, perfume base extraction (old wood, vanilla, leather, etc.) , not so sure on nasty stuff as overheated phenolic materials.
You might extract little, but the little that matters, only chemical analysis (chromatography?) can tell.
Not gas chamber concentration by any means, but yet ...... every little bit adds up.
I think I have dodged the bullet (besides current problems) because although I try to make as much as possible in-house (chassis, Transformers, speakers, PCBs , etc.) I avoided ONE process which would have been the last straw.
I use zinc plating a lot (speaker frames, metal corner protectors, skid feet, strip handle ends, etc.) so once setup a large static bath with plans for a later rotating bath for small hardware.
Used it a couple times, disassembled it and got rid of everything.
Every single bath contains Sodium Cyanide! 😫
As a last experiment tried Nickel plating.
Almost same thing, and Nickel Sulfate is quite nasty too.
This is one process I could easily do at home for peanuts but am happy to sub contract.
In fact when I deliver or pick up jobs at the plating shop I do that on the street, I do NOT get inside.
Poor people working there eventually get orange sized cavities in their lungs.
Again, bit by bit, you never feel anything special, but degradation piles up.
jm2c, ymmv, etc. , to each his own.
Lung capacity can not be recovered, when breathing becomes hard I use Asthma type inhalers and Mometasone dry dust inhaler on crisis.
Never ever smoked, any kind, so all comes from breathing various kinds of industrial residues.
My former partner, similar work history although he focused more on PA, live Sound Studio work and Keyboards died 8 years ago from inoperable lung cancer.
He also never smoked.
Meaning: this stuff is nasty.
Admittedly my exposure was quite higher than average, way more than any casual hobbyist but presume equivalent to, say, a regular Chinese Factory worker.
Maybe Tubelab went through similar exposure during his Motorola days, same thing with other Forum members who worked in Industry on the hardware side of things.
Enfleurage is a "light* extraction method,safe when dealing with organic unprocessed material such as flowers, perfume base extraction (old wood, vanilla, leather, etc.) , not so sure on nasty stuff as overheated phenolic materials.
You might extract little, but the little that matters, only chemical analysis (chromatography?) can tell.
Not gas chamber concentration by any means, but yet ...... every little bit adds up.
I think I have dodged the bullet (besides current problems) because although I try to make as much as possible in-house (chassis, Transformers, speakers, PCBs , etc.) I avoided ONE process which would have been the last straw.
I use zinc plating a lot (speaker frames, metal corner protectors, skid feet, strip handle ends, etc.) so once setup a large static bath with plans for a later rotating bath for small hardware.
Used it a couple times, disassembled it and got rid of everything.
Every single bath contains Sodium Cyanide! 😫
As a last experiment tried Nickel plating.
Almost same thing, and Nickel Sulfate is quite nasty too.
This is one process I could easily do at home for peanuts but am happy to sub contract.
In fact when I deliver or pick up jobs at the plating shop I do that on the street, I do NOT get inside.
Poor people working there eventually get orange sized cavities in their lungs.
Again, bit by bit, you never feel anything special, but degradation piles up.
jm2c, ymmv, etc. , to each his own.
I have a lot of vintage test equipment in my lab and I wonder about safety every time I go in there. It's in the basement so maybe there's some radon too! Let's say a few compounds are much more harmful than others. Be collecting a broad variety of stinks, you're increasing the chance of finding the bad ones. The problem is not much is known about this stuff, so you're taking an unknown risk. Maybe a low risk, but there's no way of knowing.
Is capturing the authentic smell part of your process or would an equivalent be acceptable? You can likely come up with a concoction using more typical, modern aroma compounds that closely mimics what you are trying to achieve. People have gotten worried about those as well, but you'd have a known chemical profile.
I appreciate your candor and you sharing your story, and it definitely is encapsulates some of the worries that I have undertaking this project. I'm getting the feeling I unfortunately might have to scrap the idea, it just wouldn't be worth the potential risk no matter how careful I think I am being.
Unfortunately yeah haha, I'm trying to get the actual smell, not a replication of it.
Anything phenolic is bad, as is ozone, or products of combustion - low voltage/low power electronics should not smell of any of these. Components get baked out as part of the soldering process, typically removing volatiles. Older used electronics can be another matter. Use decent ventilation if this is a problem, in storage as well as when sorting through them.
Ozone in particular is toxic at very low concentrations, its usually associated with high voltage equipment or electric motors, but only when powered up. Ozone doesn't live long in the environment, its far too reactive.
Most of these electronic smells are going to be bad for health, I'm not sure this is a sensible endevour.
True.
Before COVID I sold a lot, so I bought packs of 10 whole chipboard sheets to make head shells and speaker cabinets, straight from Factory or a large distributor, so literally "fresh out of the oven"
We are talking 183cm by 360 or 440 cm sheets, it must probably be a round number in feet.
Not sure what "glue" is used to keep chipboard together but it must be some kind of phenolic resin, and for the first days it evaporates like crazy.
I unload delivery truck and keep those standing on edge at a passageway at my shop entrance, then they get one by one to the carpentry machines room as needed.
For the first week or 10 days, you get into that passageway and your eyes itch, your lungs contract, go figure.
Then it tames down.
Oh well.
Nowadays I only buy the economy 3 pack and it lasts a lot , maybe 6 months or so.
Oh well.
People got used to playing at home at low levels 🤷🏻, little demand for big loud amps anymore.
Sorry to hear this. Speaker builders in particular seem to have many lung and cancer hazards. The dust, especially MDF, seems to be extra nasty and routers make a lot of it.
I think the glue likely contains petroleum products but chipboard, plywood, MDF and thereabouts all emit formaldelyde (HCHO). I discovered a lightweight, similarly strong (but expensive) alternative (uPVC) known as "Multiwood" in my region, whose test reports included on their website. Though my kitchen cabinets are made of this material (but my speakers are not) I don't really feel like taking these 'test reports' at face value (for obvious reasons).
https://www.multiwood.in/testreports
It is difficult to predict what would be emitted from burning electronics, as a lot of different materials are used during their fabrication. I try to use components as much and build for good reliability in order to avoid failures in general. As mentioned above, ventilation is what we need irrespective of the substance emitted.
Thank you for your input!! If I kept it relatively simple and didn't use any very old tech, or any very new tech to avoid off-gassing, for example, I take a part a TV remote from the early 2000s and utilize the plastic, rubber buttons, PCB, do you think I would run into any issues there with toxicity?
Very old equipment like radios, tubes (TV), switches etc. could have exteriors made out of bakelite, which is rather similar to the modern thermosetting plastics used in remotes and cabinets today. These are rather harmless when used normally but it is generally suggested not to burn these substances.