Synergy - SME Audio
This will sell very well for a £16,000 turntable. There is a market. You are just not that market. I am also not that market.
This will sell very well for a £16,000 turntable. There is a market. You are just not that market. I am also not that market.
I watched it and therefore I posted it for others to watch. Do I agree with it? No, based on my experience with a cheaper table and an expensive table that I listened to at a former customers home.
Given two different tables on my friends system I couldn't tell the difference. Did he have a decent system? I would say so. McIntosh mono block amps with an expensive preamp which I can't remember the name of along with a custom made phono preamp. His system probably 50K minimum which was a fair share of his 401K. I would call his system better than the average.
There have been some comments on the turntable quality verses the rest of the system. I've seen instances where the owner of a "Good" turntable had what I consider to be junk for the electronic portion of his system. I've seen what was a $200 integrated receiver vintage 1976 coupled with a top of the line Thorens turntable. I guess I question the buyers motivation for selecting a turntable of that quality to use with a receiver of very low quality.
I for one can pick out different amplifiers and preamps based on their sound and characteristics and I've done this in a blind A/B tests. I started my audio interest with a Pioneer SA8500 integrated amplifier which sounded pretty good for back in the mid 70's but certainly no match in the phono section or amplifier wise to equipment I have owned since. So I guess I'm throwing lack of detail into the ring. My question is how could a owner of to put it bluntly a piece of junk receiver notice anything out of the ordinary with a decent turntable other than it lacked the typical noise, wow,&flutter of an average turntable? Didn't someone say the better the system the more details and changes with a good turntable could be heard?
I for one can pick out different amplifiers and preamps based on their sound and characteristics and I've done this in a blind A/B tests. I started my audio interest with a Pioneer SA8500 integrated amplifier which sounded pretty good for back in the mid 70's but certainly no match in the phono section or amplifier wise to equipment I have owned since. So I guess I'm throwing lack of detail into the ring. My question is how could a owner of to put it bluntly a piece of junk receiver notice anything out of the ordinary with a decent turntable other than it lacked the typical noise, wow,&flutter of an average turntable? Didn't someone say the better the system the more details and changes with a good turntable could be heard?
We both don't know how big this market is.
I was in the audio market and I can assure you, its not easy to sell such a player.
Maybe in asia its possible.
The numbers that are being sold in this market at very low in europe. Often so low, that you can count on two hands in one year. Thats the reality, all other are dreams without any substance.
The whole player looks like plastic and cheap asian product for me.
SME does though. Big enough that they have stopped selling tonearms without a turntable attached under their new owners. I got mine 30 years ago so not that worried.
Its is not the audio quality, but the enjoyment that counts, and on that metric the expensive stuff wins out.
It can be priceless to have your autosuggestion facilities tickled in the right way, spending half your 401k is but a trifle.
It can be priceless to have your autosuggestion facilities tickled in the right way, spending half your 401k is but a trifle.
Just goes to show how subjective this hobby is. We all have our values and priorities. However not all of us base our decisions on informed logic.
And the belief that there is anything wrong with a receiver from the age where that was the most competitive section of the market.
Here's a little anecdotal story about my tt experience. My 1st gen Oracle Delphi's laminated alloy chassis I bought new in 1978 de-laminated and sprung apart (they are glued under tension to lower resonance) so I sold it. It had an FR-14 arm and Dynavector Ruby cart. (that table was actually called Alexandria. It was the second table Oracle ever made. They then started naming them Delphi). So I bought a $129.00 Technics table and put a $400.00 Dynavector HO cart on it. Ancillaries were Meridian 105 monos with matching 101 pre. Speakers were KEF 105.2. To get the cart to track at the correct VTA, I actually bent the head shell back and forth until I 'tuned' it in to my satisfaction. I have a Charlie Byrd direct to disc I would play for guests. The only response I've ever gotten was, first dead silence, then staring as if they'd seen a ghost, and then "whow", "sounds like they're right there". And it did 🙂
That table is long gone
That table is long gone
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Schmitz77's comments in post above (#60) I find a bit confusing, if not inaccurate in some ways.
Here's why...
Regarding choices, and the individuality of products, to me, here in the USA, it seems that the consumer is led to focus on and believe in the superficial aspect of products.
When deep down, under the skin of a product, it's more of a cookie cutter/clone designed and knocked out under some outsourced factory.
For instance - cars today - styling among various manufacturers has lost its individuality as it once was.
The typical SUV, at a glance, looks like many others, with only a very minor differenece.
Perhaps the tail lights or headlights are a bit different, maybe a tiny body curve change from another brand's model, but nevertheless, they look the same.
In many cases, even the "under the hood" parts are interchangeable.
Back a couple of decades, you could easily tell a buick from a cadillac.....
Even in the big-finned era of the 1950's, a Plymouth was radically different from a Chevrolet or a Ford...
A Harman-Kardon was obviously different from a Marantz....
But today? - what's left?
Boring hunks of audio with over-hyped claims to make the consumer swoon.
Tons of speakers with lousy 6 inch woofers in towers or tabletop boxes, yet with claimed specs individual to them - but are they really that different?
Maybe only in price and brand.
Do you really think you have a choice?
Here's why...
Regarding choices, and the individuality of products, to me, here in the USA, it seems that the consumer is led to focus on and believe in the superficial aspect of products.
When deep down, under the skin of a product, it's more of a cookie cutter/clone designed and knocked out under some outsourced factory.
For instance - cars today - styling among various manufacturers has lost its individuality as it once was.
The typical SUV, at a glance, looks like many others, with only a very minor differenece.
Perhaps the tail lights or headlights are a bit different, maybe a tiny body curve change from another brand's model, but nevertheless, they look the same.
In many cases, even the "under the hood" parts are interchangeable.
Back a couple of decades, you could easily tell a buick from a cadillac.....
Even in the big-finned era of the 1950's, a Plymouth was radically different from a Chevrolet or a Ford...
A Harman-Kardon was obviously different from a Marantz....
But today? - what's left?
Boring hunks of audio with over-hyped claims to make the consumer swoon.
Tons of speakers with lousy 6 inch woofers in towers or tabletop boxes, yet with claimed specs individual to them - but are they really that different?
Maybe only in price and brand.
Do you really think you have a choice?
Crikey! That's a lot for a turntable. I've always loved the Verdier platine but the price was out of my range. That SME is twice the price. 😱
To be fair, I have heard the Verdier with a cartridge that cost $20K. I could buy a lot of records for that price.
Well the cartridge on that is £3k and the arm used to sell for similar. Bung in a Nagra phono stage and it only seems mildly offensive in total cost 😀
I guess I could sell the wife's Cadillac and buy several and still have some money left. Probably have some explaining to do.
What is it that would make you want the TD166 more? The suspension? Build quality? Prefer older tables?
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You are absolute correct and incorrect with your criticism at the same time.
Manufacturers of consumer goods have to be profitable and are in a strong competition with other producers. In europe, there are many cars that share the same parts. Skoda, Volkswagen, Audi, Seat. This is one big company with often the same parts being used. But when it comes to comfort, only Audi is the top of their brands. And an Audio is different engineered, even when they use mostly Volkswagen parts. The whole car is more luxurious, stiffer, lower noise level etc.
Maybe the dozens of egg boilers come from the same asian factory, but thats only a problem with the store. On the market, they can chosse with hundred of models they could have displayed in the store. But they choose to go with one manufacturer, different designs.
With internet stores, thats all past. You can choose from thousands of egg boilers. And thats the real difference, those production methods have been refined so much, no longer there is a market where every telephone came from Bell Telephone. Thats all long gone and the reality is, you can choose from dozens of asian egg boiler factories on the internet, another hundred around the world. And you can choose from a thousand record players and not only ten major brands like in the 1950s. Because in those times, you could only go to the three local stores and they doesn't offer you any more.
The internet has pushed this process so far, today you can choose from the cheapest car, maybe an asian for under $10K and a rolls royce for one million dollars. Never before the market was so wide and the offers so many.
But if you look only on the differences of the cheapest egg boilers, maybe there is only a design difference, because they all come from the same asian factory...
The quality that is possible and available on the market is better than ever (maybe not in audio systems, but thats a special field of consumer goods).
If you want a professional egg boiler who lasts 24/7 for years, you can buy this model. But no private customer chooses this, because of the high price.
For money, nearly every quality level is available today. And much better and refined than in previous generations, thats for sure.
Its just a problem with the money asked for.
If someone says: but in 1960, I could buy a reliable Thorens or Garrard for low money, use a calculator and do the math. They were never cheap, even when their prices today looks tiny. But they were worth the money and today some goods arent worth their money. Thats correct. But you always have the choice, even today.
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It's a cheapee allright. Perseus which is middling class on Constellation product line is $ 27.500 while the reference class Orion is "call for price". When some kind of price is published, everybody knows it's a cheapee. 😀