can DACs sound different if they both measure well?

can DACs sound different of they both measure well?

  • Yes, I know I can hear the difference

    Votes: 69 45.7%
  • I think I can hear differences sometimes

    Votes: 26 17.2%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 18 11.9%
  • No, they will sound the same

    Votes: 38 25.2%

  • Total voters
    151
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I have listened to a bird outside. It is a very clean signal, no phase noise, frequency between 800 and 1200 Hz level about 30 dB above my hearing threshold, not too far, distortion is minimal, there is some traffic background noise. Can your system of measurements tell me if it is a Red or Green bird?
 
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There is much published research that shows you are mistaken.
There are articles on the subject at:
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ENSIONAL_SOUND_FIELD_USING_A_VIRTUAL_LISTENER
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...hnical-Papers-on-Stereo-and-Spatial-Audio.pdf

Anyway, there are two main cues to auditory perception of depth. They are: (1) ratio of direct to reflected sound, and (2) air loss of high frequencies with distance.
1) ratio or time. your answer is important
2) you mean propagation loss, of which frequencies, where, sea level or Everest, from how far. Length of the living room.
I do see the truth in your second point, cars with huge woofers go boom boom from afar, you hear nothing else, but that would not be what one would like to listen too.
 
Mark,
Very decent of you pointing to an old HP colleague of mine Siegfried, we and some other engineers in SAD often debated speaker design and evaluation. He was not an acoustic engineer but electronic engineer as the rest of us. You don't highlight any specific publications of his so I take it that you meant read them all.
 
thank you, I appreciate your recognition of my expertise, it was a long journey to get there, started in 1972 rubbing shoulders with some of the most prominent engineers of the time. Even Dave Packard. Siegfried Linkwitz. Those were the good old days when your country was technologically still relevant.
 
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But DACs are measured at the digital outputs. So that includes digital and analogue effects on the signal. We measure all the important stuff. There is stuff we dont measure as often perhaps because it's less important. The fact remains the limit of human hearing comes well before the distortion levels in the DAC output signals. so they should all sound the same.
 
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...6/10 was the best we could hit on repeated ABX switching.
How did you validate the experimental apparatus for switching? Did you use test subject training to counter the false negative bias of ABX in untrained listeners? Did listeners evaluate dacs for soundstage parameters? Prior to the test, did test subjects make a conscious effort to memorize the quirks and sound stage of each dac? What test music was used, and how familiar were the test subject with the musical content?


Also, have you read Jakob2's theory about amateur ABX testing?

IME this kind of obsession is often to find in people who converted themselves from "golden-ear" to "non-golden-ear" , usually by doing some kind of "blind tests" without knowledge about propper sensory testing.

So they decide having erred all the time when perceiving differences between electronic audio devices (including cables and other stuff) under the premise that the measured numbers are below the known hearing thresholds.

The next step in the reasoning seems to be that they did not just have fooled themselves (when believing these differences exist) but were misled by a world wide conspiracy of manufacturers, reviewers and sales men. This way it is obviously easier to accept the former illusion. "It wasn't my fault, I was tricked into it...."

In this state of belief it is (IMO) apparently extremely difficult to accept informations that provide evidence contrary to the new belief, as it would mean to accept that he might have triple-fooled himself during the conversion process.
 
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