That's your interpretation of the question, not mine. I was under the impression that the question related to the measurements that are usually done on a DAC, so close-in phase and amplitude noise and the behaviour on intersample overshoots would not be covered.
The audibility part is also unclear: the thread title is about audibility in general, the first two answers in the poll are about audibility to the person answering the poll and in the thread, it becomes apparent that it is actually about preferences when listening in a reverberant room via loudspeakers with a poor phase response.
Well then phase response should be taken out the equation, since mixing phase results in new frequencies being generated known as Döppler effect.
EDIT: I am not sure how one will remove phase non-linearity from speakers and a rooms, but certainly this we did with some really crafty signal processing in radar system. Trajectory and phase resulted in target angular velocity.
EDIT: I am not sure how one will remove phase non-linearity from speakers and a rooms, but certainly this we did with some really crafty signal processing in radar system. Trajectory and phase resulted in target angular velocity.
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Mine is the RCD970, a slightly cheaper model. The 970 was £350 and the 975 was £450. Yes I repaired the CD drawer mechanism about 15 years ago myself and I'm surprised its not working now. I'll have to open it up.
Only if the phase response changes with time.
You can listen via headphones. Regarding loudspeakers, QUAD electrostatic loudspeakers have a pretty good phase response.
I think it's beyond reasonable doubt these days that differences with phase distortion and SINAD etc are really inaudible in DACs. Nobody has been able to show otherwise. However, it is clear that there is huge scope for any human to think they can hear differences when there are none. Look at the hifi cable market as an example here.
Maybe because the speed of sound is so low that phase does not have so much affect in listening. Yes you can hear phase shift in an oncoming car but as it comes closer the phase tends to zero. Does phase tend to become zero or undetectable because of the limitations of a rooms dimensions? I never really thought of that.
The phase is totally disrupted by your room acoustics anyway. That totally dwarfs anything your DAC might be doing wrong there.
Yes, you are right, headphones will probably give the least phase anomalies as the wavelength is relatively long in relation to the distance from the ear. No how can one apply this to a listening room. Unless DSP can effectively remove phase anomalies it won't help with this issue. As I understand DSP is applied to room/frequency response anomalies. I may be corrected I am sure I would.
Nope. The actual shift (in time) between incident and reflected/received results in the new frequency. Two different frequencies mixing also created a sum and difference called intermediate frequency
The wavelength of the signal hitting your eardrums depends on the speed at which it is coming towards you or going away from you. The same is found with light in astronomy where you get a red shift - the wavelength of the light is stretched, so the light is seen as 'shifted' towards the red part of the spectrum
So? The speed of light in a vacuum (space) is a constant. However, planets does not stay in a fixed position, well not to my knowledge anyway. Let's not derail the thread completely. The speed of sound hitting your ear in air is 343 m/s. If you are under water I suppose it may matter unless you use breathing apparatus. If you are in a vacuum you will hear nothing.
Hmmm I think you are talking about 3 different effects here: Doppler, Phase and mixing
The car (or anu moving object) coming or going:
f observed = (1 + DeltaV/c)*f0
Reflected sound creates phase difference (e.g. sounds reflected by a wall) and will cause comb filter effect
IF has to do with mixing, like with RF receivers. This is not something you get by playing two different tones together in a room as an example
I think we all agree that there is no such thing as audio magic. Physical systems are governed by physical laws. The issue here, just as it is in other areas of technology designed for human perception, is whether or not we have yet identified all of the relevant physical mechanisms and their interrelationships. Then, with such compete knowledge, understand exactly which parameters to specify, and how to specify them for optimal psychoacoustic perception. The complete engineering puzzle is there to be completed, no audio magic, it’s just that for many of us, our subjective listening experience indicates that all of the relevant pieces haven’t yet been identified, or perhaps, properly incorporated, is a better term.
So, as several others have already pointed out, your question depends on exactly what parameters are being measured, and whether those are sufficient. Those certainly aren’t limited only to the standard analog parameters of THD, noise, FR and DR. So, while it is still debatable what constitutes the totality of relevant parameter measurements for an DAC design for human music listening, it’s obvious that there are quite a number, just in order to cover both domains (digital and analog).
So, as several others have already pointed out, your question depends on exactly what parameters are being measured, and whether those are sufficient. Those certainly aren’t limited only to the standard analog parameters of THD, noise, FR and DR. So, while it is still debatable what constitutes the totality of relevant parameter measurements for an DAC design for human music listening, it’s obvious that there are quite a number, just in order to cover both domains (digital and analog).
Miller, I have only been at an observatory once, and when I was little. So I cannot be sure but if we observe a planet with 0K surface temperature, I doubt whether we would see red. But again I do not know this for a fact, I am guessing. To me its logical, the hotter the redder the colder the bluer. And then there are those very big black @** holes and I guess the color from them will be ..., wait for it..... Black
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But DACs are measured at the digital outputs. So that includes digital and analogue effects on the signal. We measure all the important stuff. There is stuff we dont measure as often perhaps because it's less important. The fact remains the limit of human hearing comes well before the distortion levels in the DAC output signals. so they should all sound the same.
Actually I don't get paid for this anymore, so you can use AI as you probably just did, so yeah I am sorry I brought phase noise up in the first place. It is irrelevant. Lets ask AI what sounds different an we can close this thread with a conclusive answer from the new god.
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