IMHO and IME it becomes apparent that the ADC and the DACs are not transparent. Thus, the digitized dac output wav file is whatever you get. If the ADC is much better than the dacs to be compared then the method is probably more useful. There is is way to listen to the audible difference between two different dac files, but apparently the accuracy of that feature is discounted over at ASR (maybe because it makes plain similar measuring dacs can sound different, which is contrary to ASR doctrine).
There are many threads at ASR. This is the original:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/
I made some analysis on Marcel's RTZ dac thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/return-to-zero-shift-register-firdac.379406/post-7680531
Short summary of the above analysis:
- Some claimed to hear a subjective audible difference with 2 versions of PCM2DSD conversion.
- Recordings made with 2 versions were analyzed with deltawave which showed very small differences (most likely below audibility).
- Nobody was able to hear differences between these recordings in ABx test.
Last edited:
Their development department might/should do it. Many claim they minimise it yes.
If you quote, don't alter anything in the quoted text - not even doing bold please.
//
Nothing to do with ASR doctrine. As I have already explained to you listening to difference file can be quite misleading as it depends on how well the files can be matched (especially timing).
Such cables may be useful to help filter AC line conducted RFI (IIRC, also including possible attenuation of RFI emissions from some class-d amplifiers). If the test is of LF distortion of the AC line power, then there is probably no benefit to a shielded power cable. Just shows that making up the wrong test then concluding the cable can't do anything is not proper science. It would be better to find a case where such a cable did have an audible effect, then figure out how to measure the physical mechanism(s) involved.
Last edited:
I will bold things if I want to. I am just drawing attention to the specific part.
So far we've discussed a lot but not found any reason why people prefer one DAC over another apart from the strong chance of psychoacoustic placebo effect (which so many seem to want to deny they could be affected by).
Your ears are not as sensitive as measuring equipment. Nowhere near, in fact. Placebo effect is far more likely explanation unless there was some serious issue that brought distortion into the audible range.
It's this simple. If you believe that there's no audible difference between well measuring dacs, make your purchase accordingly. If other people disagree, well, be gracious enough to let them enjoy 'being wrong'.
If someone makes a claim that distortion mechanism A is important and audible, its up to them to prove it, if they're rigorous enough.
If someone makes a claim that distortion mechanism A is important and audible, its up to them to prove it, if they're rigorous enough.
That's not a proper way of researching something - "let them believe what they believe and you believe what you believe".
No, This thread is about discussing whether there can actually be any audible difference.
Who cares? We repeated this tests various times and agreed on it. We choose the optimal parts and called it a day. Literally hundreds were built and many experimented and had a good time.
Why would we choose the less good version? When the ears are pleased the goal is met. After all it are humans listening to it and not measuring equipment.
Not really. Its more about the OP rejecting all evidence contrary to his preexisting belief.
Besides, even if an explanation for a difference in sound everybody can agree with is not identified, it would logically incorrect to conclude that no difference in sound can therefore exist.
Apart from intersample overs what other actual evidence has been presented in this thread?
That is a fact I can stand behind. It gets problematic when this is used to deflect from the question what should be measured how. I feel this is the question that is supposed to be answered in this thread? Is it? Or is it something else?
Is it that all appliances that are engineered properly sound the same and only appliances that are defective come out to sound "different"?
Of course, some people would reject observation of a soliton wave in a river as "actual evidence." Fortunately the Royal Society took it seriously.
Isn't it obvious by now that the poll was a troll? Seems to me there was never any intention to answer a question. More like the only intention was to give the OP opportunity to proselytize on his preexisting belief.
Of course you had to resort to whataboutism instead of providing examples of actual evidence presented in this thread.
The ear is sensitive to frequency and level, not distortion.
Spend your money and time on Speakers, DSP and room treatment. This will make a difference.
Can you hear the difference btw. 2 good measuring DACs ..... unless you have super human hearing, the answer is NO.
Try to see how much of a difference you can hear between lossless and e.g. MP3
https://abx.digitalfeed.net/list.html
It is a very sobering insight 😉
No it is not the exact same as listening to 2 different DACs, these should be much much easier to hear. Try it.
You'll need good headphones.
Fact is also that when people are comparing e.g. to different DACs, to amp, cables etc. it is not done instantaneous, but by , turning off, unplugging, plugging in, turning on .... and the levels are not matched .... and on top people know what is what (not blind folded) and know the price difference .... so you of course want you new purchase to be better
My 2 cent
Spend your money and time on Speakers, DSP and room treatment. This will make a difference.
Can you hear the difference btw. 2 good measuring DACs ..... unless you have super human hearing, the answer is NO.
Try to see how much of a difference you can hear between lossless and e.g. MP3
https://abx.digitalfeed.net/list.html
It is a very sobering insight 😉
No it is not the exact same as listening to 2 different DACs, these should be much much easier to hear. Try it.
You'll need good headphones.
Fact is also that when people are comparing e.g. to different DACs, to amp, cables etc. it is not done instantaneous, but by , turning off, unplugging, plugging in, turning on .... and the levels are not matched .... and on top people know what is what (not blind folded) and know the price difference .... so you of course want you new purchase to be better
My 2 cent
Last edited:
Apparently you have trouble understanding the word "evidence". Subjective opinions, outdated marketing material or speculations are not evidence.
A comment on the notion that test equipment is far more sensitive than than the human ear: That's true when it comes to steady state test tones and or steady state distortion spurs. As soon as you want to check volume level dynamics, sound stage, phase distortion, etc., the typical test equipment loses every time because there is no way to make sense out of those things from looking at an FFT spectrum analyzer.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.