If anyone is interested I can re-post the Pardee results that show record friction variation over different compounds and the fact that in some cases cleaning a record increases friction (and by definition noise). Sadly no one has ever tried to replicate this (myself included).
It is interesting what you reveal. Thanks for the input. I've stopped listening to records as often as I used to because I really can't stand the clicks and pops on some pristine-looking, minimally-used records that I have. I have not been able to eliminate them despite thorough cleaning with ethyl alcohol solutions (medicinal) and distilled water. But I never used cleaning systems that include vacuum, because the cost of importing these machines here is very high.
That said, I thought at some point to use my Electrolux Hidrovac vacuum cleaner (which can suck liquids) by doing the following: Immerse the LP in a container with the solution (70% distilled water, approximately 30% alcohol) let it rest (how long?) to "loosen" adhesions and then vacuum. The only downside I see is that too much sitting time will loosen or spoil the LP label ...
But your contribution excited me and I would like to take the test once and for all! If you lose the label of some abominable record it will not be a problem. What easy-to-implement solution would that be? I'm not fluent in chemical terms, sorry, could you clarify the point?
Silly question, but has anyone analysed the paper sleeves used for records. chalk is used to whiten paper, so the source may not be the vinyl (although Adason knows about PVC and can hopefully comment).
I bought amounts of anti-static "special" covers from Discwhaser at the time, the paper covers were left for the less important records, I wouldn't mind if they come off chalk
or whatever they contain.😉
Dissolving with vinegar would take a while, and while on the face of it PVC should be unreactive to acids, I wouldn't try it on a prized record at first. And it's not dissolving at all really, because the vinegar reacts with the calcium carbonate. If PVC does stand up well to acids then dilute muriatic acid would be a heck of a lot quicker.
Well how about good old CLR?
https://clrbrands.com/Products/CLR-Household/CLR-Calcium-Lime-Rust-Remover
It could "descale" my LPs. I have plenty of junk disks to try it on.
My wife has used it on old Barbie dolls with no ill effect, they are vinyl I think. 😀
https://clrbrands.com/Products/CLR-Household/CLR-Calcium-Lime-Rust-Remover
It could "descale" my LPs. I have plenty of junk disks to try it on.
My wife has used it on old Barbie dolls with no ill effect, they are vinyl I think. 😀
What's in CLR? we usually use citric/sulphamic acid in descalers. that says '80% plant based' so assume the 20% is something evil 🙂
Why bother with CLR, vinegar, etc? I can hear pops and clicks BETWEEN songs on LPs, but I don't really listen to that part of the LP.
I also know that calcium carbonate is the main ingredient/cause of "hard water." Does anyone think the calcium carbonate could be from the hard water? I don't know how the vinyl is processed. Are records made from PVC? I don't think so...
Polyvinyl chloride is very nasty stuff when it is processed. Think chlorine gas.
Someone said they wiped their LPs with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. That's what I do. Clean my stylus with Last cleaner about every half dozen LPs played.
It was good for (insert your favorite audiophile's name here) and it's good enough for me.
I also know that calcium carbonate is the main ingredient/cause of "hard water." Does anyone think the calcium carbonate could be from the hard water? I don't know how the vinyl is processed. Are records made from PVC? I don't think so...
Polyvinyl chloride is very nasty stuff when it is processed. Think chlorine gas.
Someone said they wiped their LPs with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. That's what I do. Clean my stylus with Last cleaner about every half dozen LPs played.
It was good for (insert your favorite audiophile's name here) and it's good enough for me.
yes, quite correct. Thought about that but did not like the idea of introducing a biologic to the vinyl
Just my opinion, but think its better to remove, or dislodge it with a solution than to dissolve it. One mfgr who makes ultra sonic cleaners uses a solution that the user brushes on the record. This foams up, and the user is supposed to repeatedly US clean the record, followed by another application of this brush on paste.
A good friend of mine bought one of these US cleaners. On a few of the records he cleaned, his stylus dug up thin strings of white stuff. He carefully packed into a poly bag and mailed to me. Took it into lab and analyzed it. Was partially dissolved CaCO3.
I work with quite a few PhD chemists and polymer scientists. they have chimed in they think it would be better to wash it away than to try to dissolve it and then wash it out.
I looked up PVC on the net, learned that LPs ARE indeed made from PVC. Nasty.
Here in CA, land of hard water, it would be more useful for me to remove the calcium carbonate from my water heater and pipes, so I'm getting right on it...
Here in CA, land of hard water, it would be more useful for me to remove the calcium carbonate from my water heater and pipes, so I'm getting right on it...
one last post during lunch.
have done some research on wetting agents, and surfactants. Right now am using Photo Flo 200 as the wetting agent.
if anyone wants to get deep into the weeds, here are some links on surfactants, wetting agents and the hydrophilic- lypophilic balance.
here is the msds sheet for PhotoFlo MSDS, ingredients in the chemical composition as 2 non-water components.
https://www.mtsac.edu/photography/safety/photo-flo-200-solution.pdf
Appears the key chem is Octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol which goes by a trade name of IGEPAL CA-630
If one looks up IGEPAL CA-630 - Wikipedia
IGEPAL CA-630 - Wikipedia
The Wiki article cites a feature called HLB, another new concept I do not fully understand.
Hydrophilic-lipophilic balance - Wikipedia
Hydrophilic-lipophilic balance - Wikipedia
This gives a score on what it is miscible in and applications. And it appears this IGEPAL scores as a main actor in wetting.
Any thoughts anyone has would be quite welcome.
have done some research on wetting agents, and surfactants. Right now am using Photo Flo 200 as the wetting agent.
if anyone wants to get deep into the weeds, here are some links on surfactants, wetting agents and the hydrophilic- lypophilic balance.
here is the msds sheet for PhotoFlo MSDS, ingredients in the chemical composition as 2 non-water components.
https://www.mtsac.edu/photography/safety/photo-flo-200-solution.pdf
Appears the key chem is Octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol which goes by a trade name of IGEPAL CA-630
If one looks up IGEPAL CA-630 - Wikipedia
IGEPAL CA-630 - Wikipedia
The Wiki article cites a feature called HLB, another new concept I do not fully understand.
Hydrophilic-lipophilic balance - Wikipedia
Hydrophilic-lipophilic balance - Wikipedia
This gives a score on what it is miscible in and applications. And it appears this IGEPAL scores as a main actor in wetting.
Any thoughts anyone has would be quite welcome.