Nah, just measure inductance and capacitance, z=sqr(L/C)
The LC product is fairly constant, so halving L doubles C.
Jn
We always try to optimize on the forum and give advice without knowing the purpose of the audio system, but to me it is fundamental, each type of music is almost irreconcilable from one another. Some drivers are optimized with voicing to reproduce with max fidelity the human voice, some to get the most grave transients, some to cut phase, some to have a perfect response curve, some to maximize sound pressure and cut THD, you cannot have it all...because there 3 main types of music.
Instruments, Speakers, and Computer generated.
The most compromised type is 'instrumental' music and non-amplified voice. The main reason is that this type of music absolutely needs the room to sound natural, the auditorium or concert hall or recording studio is an integral part of the sound to reproduce in the home of the listener to sound OK.
So, the nature of this sound is very delicate, extremely dynamic and has serious issues with a driver in a room trying to replicate the sound of the hall... it is the most compromised recordings, and high-res, LOT of compression, multiple specialty microphones used.
Any feedback, opamps, will be further audible. Hifi alnico drivers were the best with EL34 at delivering the nuances and emotion of that music, however their THD, and response curves were greatly compromised. (with stiff suspension, light resonant paper, small voice coils, best for acoustic music), the drivers of that time added a lot of coloration.
The type 2, rock etc is easier to record, it is already 100% produced with microphones and sent through drivers, except the drum set. All they need is limiters, but less compression than instrument. The distortion is high, the subtleties almost non-existant, the room sound easily recreated with 'reverb' 'echo' 'pan' and some EQ console.
Modern speakers are optimized to play, a sound that was produced by speakers in the first place.
The last type of music is completely artificial and disconnected, it has the less harmonics and very easy to reproduce on speakers, made with synthesised sounds, techno, electronic music sounds best on modern hi-fi speakers...
I think the 3 types of recorded music are irreconcilable. and why musical instruments sound 'dead' uninvolved, 0 emotion, and PA like on most newer systems.
Instruments, Speakers, and Computer generated.
The most compromised type is 'instrumental' music and non-amplified voice. The main reason is that this type of music absolutely needs the room to sound natural, the auditorium or concert hall or recording studio is an integral part of the sound to reproduce in the home of the listener to sound OK.
So, the nature of this sound is very delicate, extremely dynamic and has serious issues with a driver in a room trying to replicate the sound of the hall... it is the most compromised recordings, and high-res, LOT of compression, multiple specialty microphones used.
Any feedback, opamps, will be further audible. Hifi alnico drivers were the best with EL34 at delivering the nuances and emotion of that music, however their THD, and response curves were greatly compromised. (with stiff suspension, light resonant paper, small voice coils, best for acoustic music), the drivers of that time added a lot of coloration.
The type 2, rock etc is easier to record, it is already 100% produced with microphones and sent through drivers, except the drum set. All they need is limiters, but less compression than instrument. The distortion is high, the subtleties almost non-existant, the room sound easily recreated with 'reverb' 'echo' 'pan' and some EQ console.
Modern speakers are optimized to play, a sound that was produced by speakers in the first place.
The last type of music is completely artificial and disconnected, it has the less harmonics and very easy to reproduce on speakers, made with synthesised sounds, techno, electronic music sounds best on modern hi-fi speakers...
I think the 3 types of recorded music are irreconcilable. and why musical instruments sound 'dead' uninvolved, 0 emotion, and PA like on most newer systems.
Last edited:
10: just the connections matters, and they have nothing related with pizza.
20: but pizza may improve the listening experience.
30: go to 10
good luck,
Pierre
20: but pizza may improve the listening experience.
30: go to 10
good luck,
Pierre
Last edited:
The Cobra cables in question were marketed hereabouts in the late 70’s to early 80’s as I recall, and were actually made in Japan. Yes, they had the propensity to cause some amps to go into catastrophic oscillation. I can remember running a 20ft or so pair through a crawl space, and them being an absolute bitch to reterminate. Fortunately (?) the local dealer at the time was also an authorized Cotter and MIT cabling reseller, and was fully equipped and trained in the use of solder pot and the dark arts of custom terminating. One could have filled several Olympic sized swimming pools on the amount of KoolAid communally consumed in those good ole daze -Friday night after hours sessions assisted by a thin miasma of blue smoke and pizza. Then I’d drive the 30km home on the Pat Bay highway - never encountered a roadblock.
Skin depth is inversely related to the square root of frequency, and effective resistance is inversely related to skin depth.
In practical terms, the effect kicks in above 10kHz.
Another hilarious cable post with the usual, 1. Cables are super important, 2. and my ears have infinite resolving power 3. You can't measure this stuff. 1. 20 gauge copper cable will work fine for speakers. You can calculate that 8 feet of it will only have 0.5 dB change in response for an 8 ohm speaker. Well, I can calculate it. 2. Well fella, you can't hear 0.5 dB differences. If you think you can prove it here and now. Go test your hearing and post it. Blind Tests 3. We have been able to measure far better than you can hear for years and years. They do it every day at the hearing aid clinic. What do you think 24 bit 192 kHz recordings are anyway. They are just a series of Measurements. If you can hear it, it can be measured. Folks who claim to hear subtle differences due to cables are either using really faulty cables and associated equipment that actually produces > 0.5 dB changes, or they have normal audiophile hearing (poor hearing and great imaginations). The only method that routinely exposes the truth is science based. Conduct a randomized double blind study, and they can't identify what is different at all. So, feel free to prove your hearing with the link above and post the evidence here, or I will assume your opinion regarding your ability to hear cable changes has no weight. Let stream of replies packed with logical fallacies begin! "Oh, but the switches in the double blind setup ruin the cables" "Oh, the stress of the test upsets my hearing" .... bla bla bla
I only have a close-up. The wires were wrapped around a cylindrical plastic core.
This was back from when a capacitance meter was out of reach for mot and i have long past sold all the stuff i had (for realitivily big bucks on eBay)
dave
While true, how many of us have ready access to any source that even comes close to being able to use software that even comes close to capturing the original event? And there is a lot of art in the attaempt to capture as much of the real event as possible.
dave
Instead of drivers, let’s say loudspeaker… this is just another way of saying that the speaker designer has lots of room to make different choices in the trade-offs he has to make to end up with a practical speaker. There are so many holes in the (current) possibilities of a speaker design/execution that there can be broad differences in equally valid speakers.
dave
The issue was not discovered until many amps went up in smoke. Many, many more amps that were perfectly fine with it.
dave
The cable is all part of the lcr of the entire circuit and should be treated so...
Wire/xo/speaker sums together...right?
So knowing the lcr of the wire allows that much more fine tuning......I’m thinking one should at least be cognizant of the wires measurements b4 just saying ‘any ol zip cord will do’ I would at least reco using a wire that offers a factory spec or be able to take these measurements yourself.
Otherwise you might be at the edge of a performance window then your uninformed choice of wire could put you more in the wrong direction.
Ex; rolling off the top end with too much wire capacitance.....and then add the wrong inductance and there’s the possibility of amp damage?
Yes/no?
The capacitance question and associated risk answered - absent S-O or agenda - by jneutron in #64 above.
I only have a close-up. The wires were wrapped around a cylindrical plastic core.
This was back from when a capacitance meter was out of reach for mot and i have long past sold all the stuff i had (for realitivily big bucks on eBay)
dave
So do I have it correct that the + and - (green/clear) are interwoven only separated by a shellac type coating?
The post about them shorting out from being stepped on makes sense now.....
The amps that were killed may have had more to do with the wires shorting out over time?
Well in a sense the wire is all part of the xo.....just as the speaker itself is.
I don’t like having to eq for playback.....it always seems to mess with something even it fixes the initial problem.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.