Yes. That which is distortion has no ambience associated with it, it's a very 'flat' sound - it exists at the interface of the drivers to the air, as far as having being in a particular acoustic space. Whereas, musical performances always exist beyond that point - for me, the position of all the musical content always is 'located' well past the speakers. Even the UULE, the Aldi TV, does that, the sound is no longer associated with the tiny speakers, it hovers and stretches significantly back behind the screen itself.
In other words, the low level detail, the acoustic space cues, are key to all this being possible - if they are sufficiently well reproduced the ear/brain can take them on board, unscramble them, and the whole sonic picture makes sense. But, if too disrupted up by the remaining low level noise and distortion then one's unconscious mind gives up on trying to do this deciphering, and the recording just sounds a mess - it's a "bad" recording ... 😉
The more complex a recording, the worse it can become - the recent, very highly processed, compressed recordings are the worst in this regard - the acoustic clues are so heavily interfered with, there's very little left for the mind to make sense of ...
Well, I'm not the slightest bit interested in that "tiniest details" thing - for me, that's a form of distortion. I listen to the big picture of the sound, the overall impact - which should bowl me over if it's that type of music - but at the same time, if I so choose, I should be able to easily switch focus and 'see' exactly what one of the musical threads is doing, how it's contributing to the overall mix. In fact, that exactly how I, at least, listen to live music happening.
The Michael Jackson recording is particularly noteworthy because all the component sounds have their own, relatively large spaces - the big picture impact of it is like listening to an orchestra - there's a 'hugeness' to the sound which is quite something ...
Guys, this thread isn't about fantasies involving your TV sets, it's about measurements and DBTs of Bybee resistors. Please stick to the topic and use the multitude of other threads that are already polluted with hot air for off topic stuff.
If you've got measurements or DBT results, this is the place for them.
If you've got measurements or DBT results, this is the place for them.
Yeah, what Scott said. We are just chatting until the results come it.
If this thread is too noisy, then it certainly needs more Bybees!
If this thread is too noisy, then it certainly needs more Bybees!
The results DID come in. It would be nice if there were others with real, on-topic contributions. The data-averse can continue to expound in the Curl thread, the tube sound thread, and whatever other threads they've polluted.
No SY, you measured the wrong Bybee. Haven't you figured that out by now?
Bybee Purifiers are quantum devices. Therefore measuring one automatically means you've measured the wrong one, or measured the wrong things. These are Quantum effects, they can't be pinned down. And you call yourself a scientist! Really.....
Bybee Purifiers are quantum devices. Therefore measuring one automatically means you've measured the wrong one, or measured the wrong things. These are Quantum effects, they can't be pinned down. And you call yourself a scientist! Really.....
I would be happy to put down big money now to say that no-one will ever be able to an acceptable DBT verification that the Bybees have an impact, 😀.
Which, is not the same thing as saying that they don't have an audible impact ... 😉
Which, is not the same thing as saying that they don't have an audible impact ... 😉
OK then, what is the difference? Are you saying that sighted testing will be the same as DBT testing?
IF they work (and no concession made), there must be a mechanism by which they do. If that mechanism is unknown to physics, then it is indeed earth shattering. If, on the other hand, their mechanism is explained totally by known physics (small resistance and inductance), then Occam's Razor would apply.
Who would have thought; mind reading in a thread about Bybee frauvices (shortening of "fraudulent devices" for future use for brevity)?
No, rather that the sort of improvements will be such that they will only be noticeable over a longer time period for many people - the rapid switching which characterises DBT exercises won't allow the 'sense' of what has changed to build up sufficiently in people's awareness, they'll only be guessing most times.
It's similar to MP3 coding variations testing - there are people who've made a major effort to train themselves to pick up the coding abberations, they will pick precisely the musical sequences that they know will show the 'damage'; the same thing would need to happen for Bybee testing, the test subjects would need to 'train' themselves to be able to pick the difference consistently - and who's going to bother about that ...?
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you cannot reliably hear/remember small differences over a much longer time periods, so the difference is clearly not audible, more likely psychological in such a case. if that is the only way the 'differences' show themselves, you need to accept that they are very likely to be imagined, or emotional. differences in yourself, not the DUT.
sure for minute differences, some time to acclimatise might be advised, using music you know, on gear you are familiar with that has a problem you are trying to solve, but once you have done so, short blind testing, should reveal the differences, especially with such a ridiculously priced object as this that makes claims of improving just about everything with its pure quantum awesomenessness
sure for minute differences, some time to acclimatise might be advised, using music you know, on gear you are familiar with that has a problem you are trying to solve, but once you have done so, short blind testing, should reveal the differences, especially with such a ridiculously priced object as this that makes claims of improving just about everything with its pure quantum awesomenessness
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I can pick low bit-rate MP3s because they sound flat, and that is apparent fairly quickly. It is the LACK of music that is discernible. Why anyone would bother "training" themselves for some pointless exercise is beyond me.
Human beings are very good at imagining things that don't exist (I don't want to break forum rules by referring to one of the key prohibitions). Are you sure that you aren't just imagining the "differences"?
If one is really, really keen to get to the bottom of it, using classic DBT techniques - and willing to put a lot of time into getting the test environment exactly right, so that no spurious effects come into it - then I'm willing to say that it could be possible. Remember, if the 'job' of the tweak is to remove noise, then you may need to put in a fair bit of effort to make sure that the additional processes required to do the switching, etc, don't add in extra noise, that swamps what's being tested for.
I would dispute the hearing of small differences over longer periods - the technique I use is particularly difficult recordings, which easiliy provoke a system into obvious distortion. Then what you listen for is a difference of the quality of that "distortion" - because the unpleasantness hits you in the face, it's normally clear that a change has occurred, if in fact that happened ...
I would dispute the hearing of small differences over longer periods - the technique I use is particularly difficult recordings, which easiliy provoke a system into obvious distortion. Then what you listen for is a difference of the quality of that "distortion" - because the unpleasantness hits you in the face, it's normally clear that a change has occurred, if in fact that happened ...
No, I'm talking about the highest rates, the ones which the standards people claim are 'transparent': AAC, 320 MP2, etc. The original and the compressed are different; therefore, by definition, distortion of the original has occurred. And, the majority of people can't pick it ...
Yet, those who are interested in the matter have worked out what to do to provoke audible differences, and that's the point. If the focus and desire to make it happen are there, people can discern the differences.
Pano, I think I see what you are getting at. Maybe my understanding of 'different sonic spaces' is that those extraneous sounds and noises are not directly coupled to the two L and R (stereo) music sources but are more like a mono component? Sort of sound space common mode, that places them differently on the sound stage?
jan
Yes, on a good system that does not get perturbed by extraneous noises, the music and noise sources do indeed subjectively 'separate'.
A system that exhibits low levels of higher order harmonics and low IMD is a big key here.
Then one is able to ignore the 'noises' and listen through them, revealing the original music.
When the system is done right, it can be quite surprising just how good some very old recordings can sound.
Dan.
A system that exhibits low levels of higher order harmonics and low IMD is a big key here.
Then one is able to ignore the 'noises' and listen through them, revealing the original music.
When the system is done right, it can be quite surprising just how good some very old recordings can sound.
Dan.
OK, so no-one else has any data or DBT results to contribute, just discussion of what speed Tinkerbell's wings need to flap to give her buoyancy.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
1. A couple of threads have dismantled the devices, as far as I can remember, nothing special.
2. There is no nanotube packing material...
WHY are there no measurements from the "I Believe in Bull****" (the official slogan of the Bybee believers society, because .... Drum roll....
Its a resistor, and publishing measurements would (like with a lot of other Audio rip offs) expose the fraud. Why ruing a good thing by allowing facts and measurements to show it does nothing more than a common or garden resistor. All this speculation about pn junction material, esoteric top secret materials and magical effects on electrons, just feeds the myth, and that's all it is a myth.
Why are any measurements presented decried by the IBS, because it shows up the fraud, and some seem to believe this crap with a religious forever, that seems to cloud any rationality and common sense. Of course they have the Audio guru JC on there side, but again he presents no measurements only changing anecdotal evidence, based on the current surreal theory put forward by some Audiophile desperate to discover the neat big electronics/physics secret, that has passed by the rest of the technological world.
As I have said before, why is such a device only available to Audiophiles (and don't bother sprouting the cost blah de blah BS, I have worked on projects where the Bybee costs would be quite acceptable).
Have Fun🙂
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