Looking to build a PA system for my church , i have some knowledge in mixing sound etc but putting the Speakers together trips me up...
My top Cab Amplifier is pushing 1050w RMS @ 4ohms so I would like to build something around that power rating.
Can someone please point me in the right direction in building this...
I have empty cabs so i need recommended Compression drivers (tweeter) 1-3/8 TPI thread and recommended 15"s DUAL SETUP then Ill also like to put in a 3 way Frequency driver/crossover
Technically I just need the RMS wattage of these speakers that will be able to SAFELY go along with the amplifier @ 4ohms any help would be greatly appreciated.
Recommended speakers would be a plus
save me time looking around altho i do have a budget but ill at least know what im shopping for.
My top Cab Amplifier is pushing 1050w RMS @ 4ohms so I would like to build something around that power rating.
Can someone please point me in the right direction in building this...
I have empty cabs so i need recommended Compression drivers (tweeter) 1-3/8 TPI thread and recommended 15"s DUAL SETUP then Ill also like to put in a 3 way Frequency driver/crossover
Technically I just need the RMS wattage of these speakers that will be able to SAFELY go along with the amplifier @ 4ohms any help would be greatly appreciated.
Recommended speakers would be a plus
save me time looking around altho i do have a budget but ill at least know what im shopping for.
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I have two words for you: line source. Acoustics in churches more often than not poses sound reinforcement designers with problems. By using highly directional sound sources (in midrange too) reverberant sound can be pushed back and speech recognition gets better.
Cardioid speaker systems might work too, depending on the requirements on horizontal dispersion. But all in all, first get the acoustic equation right and decide on that radiation pattern.
Cardioid speaker systems might work too, depending on the requirements on horizontal dispersion. But all in all, first get the acoustic equation right and decide on that radiation pattern.
As far as i know the church imho is pretty much covered in that department plus any adjustment necessary can be done to accommodate ...... We are using a X32 board and also have a bdx venu360 with RTA mic (had this before going digital board) all ready to go...
There is a budget as I mentioned so I would like to use what's there already i.e the empty dual 15" top cabs.
Thanks for the tip tho when its time to go into the new sanctuary Ill have them take that into consideration
It must be a pretty modern venue with care taken on acoustics then. If any doubt, check reverb times against 3d octave bands and the presence of flutter echoes.
Furthermore, some directions on max SPL, bandwidth requirements and directivity goal would come in handy. Lot of us here can suggest a fine combo of 15” midbass and big horn with suitable CD (1.4”?) and that will sound good, but will it at every spot intended?
Furthermore, some directions on max SPL, bandwidth requirements and directivity goal would come in handy. Lot of us here can suggest a fine combo of 15” midbass and big horn with suitable CD (1.4”?) and that will sound good, but will it at every spot intended?
True true , the current setup being used rght now is underwhelming with some cheap passive speakers, so when I found they had this lovely crown amp plus other equipment gathering dust in storage I took it upon myself to roll these top cabs out.... I can mix a mean service or concert but my loud speaker maths is terrible...
The spec plate on the cabs shows 1200w | 4ohms | 3 way system not even sure if that 1200w rms/continues or peak, the frequency drivers in it was burnt out, this is number 1 reason why i want to work around that headache and just get new pieces CD, 15" and driver that fits with the amp rating 1050w rms @4ohm and then just remake the spec plate lol feel me...
I have a spl meter on order as we speak once I get setup ill make it work, that part im really not worried about just dont want to be burning out speakers.
Almost like nobody DIY their own cabs anymore these days... Jus throw out the old and replace it with new, no headaches to do the math, makes you wonder how it was done back in the day when there was no tons of tech and it was all analog.
My 2 ct? It’s not even about DIY. It’s about sound field management. Not about throwing in amps and top cabs, DIY or not. If your concern is not that, it doesn’t matter that much which top cab (or separate units plus custom crossover) you pick, apart from your fear of blowing out CD’s. Get some with appropriate protection circuits.
thats true, i know thers alot of maths when it comes to pairing speakers with the CD and getting the crossover to mesh with everthing and then all that have to be able to take the juice coming from the amplifier so as to not fry em.
re:'no one seem to be able to assist" - you haven't provided the right info to get a starting point. In your other post, you said you had repaired the original 15in driver, but didn't have the specs? The guys who did the repair should be able to measure them for you, all you need is the sensitivity, so you can choose an appropriate CD driver. You haven't said what the mounting dia. of the CD is. Once you have suitable CD drivers, the only problem left to solve is the crossover, & no, a random xover someone has given you won't do the job.
What Markbakk says in post #9 is important, you need a system appropriate to the room, not just a pile of random electronics
What Markbakk says in post #9 is important, you need a system appropriate to the room, not just a pile of random electronics
Ohh no no no that thread needs to get deleted.....
The repair guy told me don't use those cause the amp i currently have will fry em if not careful for sure hence this new thread, so it would be safer getting new ones that can handle the juice safely from the amp and then get the recommended CD's to got with it... and you are correct i just realize i didn't put the CD size (1-3/8" 18 TPI thread ) in the first post my bad (and now u point it out lol) ... then of course a useable crossover to go with it or components to custom make one if that best to do. (wana go 3 way)
I have a Beheringer X32 Plus a dbx VENU360 with a RTA mic annnnd SMAART so im very much prepared to handle sound measuring would be nice to get me at least 90db teehee
thanks for your input
From what I can see here, you've got 4 major problems
- you don't know how to handle your gear
- you don't know what your gear does
- you don't know anything about the acoustics of the venue
- you don't know how measurements work
wonder how you determined all this on the fly LOL
Leme guess you want to see :
1. The coverage space? (wonder if this Ease focus 3 software i have can do that for me)
2. Do I have them aimed properly? Well no they are not hanged no space to do that but its a bit elevated from floor about 30" right now to accommodate subs later (I did say i have SMAART tho need a look see?)
3. How much power i need SPL @1m/3' ? Well the front row is about 5' (feet) from the speakers, wonder if my amp can give me about 90db A WEIGHTED from the middle of the audience?
4. How much headroom I need? About 3-6db
5. Sound measuring equipment? Well I'm have a DBX RTA-M Mic Can either use the board or the dbx venu360 along with SMAART
6. My OSHA?
7. Mixer Behringer X32 guess according to you I need more training on how to use it
8. Amplifier type: class D | Watts Per Channel (2): 1350W @2ohms - 1050w @3ohm - 600w @8ohms
did I miss anything?
My Dilemma is quite simple I have X Amplifier and 2 empty dual 15 cabs that I want to repurpose and use instead of thrashing them and buying new ones....
X Amplifier has a power rating as stated above, IF all i want is some X dual 15"s midbase with a 1-3/8 CD to go along with it no matter the room no matter the measurement NONE OF THAT what should I get and stick in the empty cab that i have, along with a compressor either 2 way or 3 way which ever is best to give me at least 3db headroom so that I dont fry them if i want to really crank it up. I have all the tools i need to make it work in my space, we have drapes and acoustic pads available to do everything we need them to do....
Oh wait I dont know anything according to you
Yes. You missed the fact you can't use your stuff. You have no idea what to do. It's not about "the wattage", you need to put in a low cut and a limiter. And "just" a crossover is 99% of the speaker development. And if you actually could handle SMAART you would not have asked what you did.
You've got two choices :
1. You are not the only one with a X32. Or some amps in the kW range. You are not impressing anyone with that, especially since you've already proven you don't know how to handle the easiest sh*t. Get down from your high horse and start to learn to use your equipment. Having it is nice, but if you don't want to learn how to use it, it's the same as not having it. The forum can help your with all of your equipment. There are numerous experienced ppl here who can do that.
2. Continue on your high horse and ride into the sunset.
From my point of view, it's not difficult to choose any two 15" bassmid PA drivers and a horn tweeter of your choosing.
Those 4" voice coils are usually specified somewhere between 500 and 1000W nominally. Two of these 8 Ohm units in
parallel should provide you with enough of power. I would probably wire these as a 2.5 way.
An example: B&C 15TBX100 15", power wise, mind the frequency response in general to be able to cross easily
You could have calculated (roughly) what you need for SPLmax (at what distortion level?) at 1m for that, you know how big the seating area is. But since when do we measure (music) programme SPL in dB(A)? Did I miss something? And 3-6dB headroom really isn't very much, I'd say 10 is on the safer side.
Basic sound field management and ballpark figures. So, let's assume an audience area of 20x40m. The middle will be about 22m from the sources. You want 90dB SPL music programme there.
Let's assume -6dB for every doubling of distance for direct sound (did I mention line sources do -3dB within their working range?) and you end up with 120-123dB max SPL including headroom and assuming you play stereo (doubling SPL for coherent sources, adding 3dB for not-coherent sound).
Now that is quite tough for a 15"-1.4" combo, but not impossible. But: 90dB in the middle means a staggering 115dB on front row. They'll be happy with that. Put otherwise: such a system isn't really suited for such a seated audience. Even for a dance floor this size you could raise your eyebrows.
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Hmmmm, really good point ... I should get me 2 of those for a future project, what horns would you put with them? heck Id even Bi-amp or tri-amp them..
I did then didn bother to go thru with it fully since Im too fully interested in room size, this setup will also need to be used outdoors for outdoor ventures, yea we sometimes have open air services, I hope that makes a little more sense now why I didnt care too much for perfect room calculations there are measures that can be put in place to handle to juice levels in the building, in fact he room isnt enclosed there are large windows that be open all the time... Its Hot out here. I can remeasure C weight but meh..
Sure you realize by now the Eyebrow raising isnt a problem... even if it were I can always bring that 115 back down to comfortable levels at the front and put up some fills at the back if all fails.
10db head room now thats true real best inslot headroom, just didnt want go so much incase im not there and the volenteers get a little out of hand and crank up the juice to insane levels.
Ive yet to see someone say ok take these 15's and pair them with these CDs and get this or build this custom crossover like so with so and so components, they should have enough RMS wattage to handle your amplifier......
Think Ive figured out the solution to this headache, Im not into the powered PA system hype they cant give me what I want so im looking at some
JBL PRX425 which should handly my power plant nicely... Now to shop for some matching subs
Thanks friend for your patience with me as we tried to tackle this dilemma.