“Building the best 3-way full range speaker in the world”

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#43
Saw your post on Facebook, and as stated there - stellar work 🙂
And if it gives you "chills and goosebumps" then its a definite success!

Regarding overall cost / amount of work... Pi is a very good factor.
Projected cost and time estimate multiplied with 3.14 are usually closer to the truth than the initial forecast 🙄

A lot of projects would never have been initiated / attempted had the true cost been known.

But when its worth is - priceless :xmastree:
 
#44
I am setting up a 3 way horn the mid has been the most difficult; best so far JBL compression driver made in Brazil. the horn bass speaker should be crossed over at 250HZ. horn loaded 8 inch speaker 8 watts is also very good hope to try a second hand JBL or 8 inch Chinese speaker 400 watts with the same specs. sounds good but I don't have speaker test equipment.
 
#45
PSchut said:
I would like to keep the details to myself for now with months of tweaking and listening.
The filter is a normal 3 way second order LR design.
Crossover frequencies of 230 Hz and 2800 Hz
A small eq lifts the tweeter response. (expensive with Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil capacitors in that part of the filter.


The frequency response below is left and right in the room measured at 1 meter distance on tweeter height. The little bump at 1,1 kHz has always been present in both the large and 2 way speaker. It sonically never bothered as measured in the listening position it is gone. Something to do with the d'Appolito arrangement. The frequency has a wavelength of exactly the the distance of the two midrange units.
The dip at 230 Hz is the error of the mic being at tweeter position and is gone when the mic is placed between LF and MF.

Below 300 Hz the frequency response alters with every different setup, distance of walls and so on, and is therefor not Representative but it says something about how low this speaker goes.

Here the second graph tells something. This is a near field measurement as shown in a picture above. The mic a few cm from the cone. The top red curve is with just the 2nd order HP filter. The green lower graph is with a notch filter added to dampen the second resonance peak and this little tweak made the LF sound so much better. more control and it was as if it reached deeper.


Of course do you like your self made speaker, I made many and I always loved them ...... at first. Then the first issues arrive. You hear imperfections, things that are not ideal and so on.
With this speaker this did not happen, and now 3 months since the last tweak, and 5 months since they first made sound they sound better and better.
I went to some shows, friends and shops to verify if I was critical enough and ...... nothing yet comes close. Speakers ranging from €10k to €125k outperform them in more than 1 aspect.
And my front-end can be improved .....
Click to expand...
Is that a resonance at around 1100-1200Hz?

I've had that in my speakers, before I found it with proper measurements, and I found it to make quite a difference in the sound - to the better - when removed😊

Awesome build 👍👍
 
#46
Looks very nice but hmm not looks very musical, almost +-3db nonlinearity at critical 1k-3k . the crossover at 200Hz is also not well done, -5db.
Do you have crossover phase chart?
 

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#48
savan said:
Looks very nice but hmm not looks very musical, almost +-3db nonlinearity at critical 1k-3k . the crossover at 200Hz is also not well done, -5db.
Do you have crossover phase chart?
Click to expand...
Yes it puzzled me, and is a bump that only was measured at 1m on axis. On the listening position you do not see the bump. And I can assure you the sets sounds fantastic.
But I sold it, in favour of a slightly smaller but nothing less of extreme. I hope to start tweaking in a month or two.
See: the new 3 way WIP
 
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#49
The typical mistake, based on believing in propaganda: wasted a fortune on gold-silver Mumdorf Voodoo instead of going active.
Anyway, good news is there is still a huge improvement possible, by making these beautifull builds active.
Click to expand...
Well I kind of going into that direction, but not fully. See: the new 3 way WIP

But Hybrid. Active works well on LF, adding DSP for room correction and extending the frequency response below the natural roll-off.
Using a DSP for the midrange is a no go for me, and to tweak the MF to HF requires very specific corrections that no analog active cross over can achieve.
And a digital cross over is a no-go for me. The quality achieved by my DCS DAC and Tube Phono amp will be ruined by the low cost AD and DA converters.
I use Roon, and Roon can add some room correction that I tried and even with a small correction like -3Db at 32 HZ (a room resonance) the magic was gone.

The Hypex class D amp will be fine for frequencies below 200Hz but no Class D amplifier sounds good enough for full range. That is why I go hybrid.
I am designing a discrete analog active High-Pass filter that will be placed in front of the MF-HF section for one reason and that is the massive components I need to make a passive High Pass filter at 200Hz. and the LCR correction to remove the big resonance peak of the parallel midrange units that is needed to make the passive filter work.

To me saying that active is always better than passive is ..... it depends. The best speakers I ever heard were passive. Sometimes bi-amped, but never active, and they costed north of €100k. Except the speaker you are criticizing..... the speaker from this tread. It costed €12k and 14 months to build.

This hybrid trend is something you start to see more and more. Active LF and passive MF/HF

If the active filter that I am building that needs 8 discrete opamps to work doesn't give me the transparency of the speaker of this tread, I'll remove it and go passive. (With exotic Mundorf components 🙂)
 
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#50
There are designers doing the fines drivers in the world and then this DIYS guy puts capacitors, coils and resistors between it and the amp :headbash:

Just to listen to music that has been running through a zillon AD and DA processes during production. I hope you can understand that some may find this strange and don't take me too serious. Peace!
 
#51
Well I did, and with one reason ... to get the best sounding speaker I am able to construct. But it needed quite some correction co cope with the variable impedance. The new owner was extremely impressed when he heard it the first time some 5 years ago. He asked me to build another set, but this attention to detail is only fun if you do it once for yourself. So he was over the moon when last April I mentioned they were getting replaced and immediately agreed with the selling price. The next phase will indeed be partially active. So your point is valid to some extend.
 
#54
Hi clsidxxl,
I bought them on EBay, from a chinese seller called EicStore. (€950 for 24 pieces as we made 3 speaker sets, without the round base plates)
When I started my new design (see my new tread) I tried to buy them again as they are also part of my surround speakers, but they are not available anymore, and the seller can't get them.
So I designed a new feet/base construction.

Funny detail is that the new owner of these speakers likes my new feet/base construction that he asked me to change these speakers with the new base.
So I will have 8 of these feet available in a few months.
As you live in the Netherlands I could sell them if you are interested.

They will most likely end up on "Marktplaats"
 
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