Hello,
I'm pretty good with audio and electronics as well as woodworking and I'd like to make a home for the 15" Beringer Eurolive woofer I've just purchased. It may not be the best but I bet it'd sound better than this $30 wallmart sub that I have in my house (this is for in my house by the way, but I put it in this forum because It's a PA woofer) so I picked it up cheap on eBay.
I want this to be a standalone woofer box, no tweeters or anything else in it. I don't know much about box design and I know there is many different variations such as some where the woofer faces foward, some backward with a horn type thing. I'd just like some help to build a nice sounding box for this woofer. I'd prefer to keep the dimensions under 2' per side, but if going bigger will give a huge improvement, maybe I can change that preference.
I'd also like to hear any recommendations on making and populating a small mid to high range tweeter box, I want to keep it fairly small, but with enough to not get drown out by the woofer, I'd like to get recommendations on some cheap (I do like vintage as well as new products, and new and used condition) tweeters that I can pick up on well known websites like amazon, eBay or parts express, etc.
Any help is appreciated, thank you for your time.
I'm pretty good with audio and electronics as well as woodworking and I'd like to make a home for the 15" Beringer Eurolive woofer I've just purchased. It may not be the best but I bet it'd sound better than this $30 wallmart sub that I have in my house (this is for in my house by the way, but I put it in this forum because It's a PA woofer) so I picked it up cheap on eBay.
I want this to be a standalone woofer box, no tweeters or anything else in it. I don't know much about box design and I know there is many different variations such as some where the woofer faces foward, some backward with a horn type thing. I'd just like some help to build a nice sounding box for this woofer. I'd prefer to keep the dimensions under 2' per side, but if going bigger will give a huge improvement, maybe I can change that preference.
I'd also like to hear any recommendations on making and populating a small mid to high range tweeter box, I want to keep it fairly small, but with enough to not get drown out by the woofer, I'd like to get recommendations on some cheap (I do like vintage as well as new products, and new and used condition) tweeters that I can pick up on well known websites like amazon, eBay or parts express, etc.
Any help is appreciated, thank you for your time.
Why don't you have a look at this and then Google other options for bass box calculators? It's good learning experience.
Cheers. Speaker Box Enclosure Designer / Calculator
Cheers. Speaker Box Enclosure Designer / Calculator
Well apart from calculating the box I was also looking for information for what the different woofer box designs do, like some I see have the woofer faced backwards inside of a wedge shaped horn thing.
I'll do some more googling in the meantime.
EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that since I'm building the entire box by hand, I'd like to try to make a good one, I want to know if different designs might be better than the average ported or sealed cube or rectangle.
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I can't find much about how the different designs change the performance of a woofer on Google, can anyone give me advice on the different designs of woofer boxes?
that's a pretty tall order to do over an internet thread simply because the very question you ask has been the stuff of many a book and several engineering papers!
to make a long story short no one driver can be used in all designs and so far no one box can have a happy life with any old driver(if this sounds like marital relationships it's because it can be as complicated)
do you have access to any test equipment multimeter? audio oscillator?
to make a long story short no one driver can be used in all designs and so far no one box can have a happy life with any old driver(if this sounds like marital relationships it's because it can be as complicated)
do you have access to any test equipment multimeter? audio oscillator?
I understand it is a bit to ask but I don't want too in depth of an answer, just something to start with.
I like to build my own amps so I have about all I need (i think), Oscilloscope, multimeters, power supplies, and I could generate tones with a computer if needed and more.
well being that your driver comes from a BEHRINGER EUROLIVE B215A that according to specs should get down to at least 55 hz and is in a bass reflex type enclosure i'd try a bass reflex box
without published specs some testing and guesstimation will be involved
have you ever tested speakers for resonance measurements?
mental note : the b215a in my understanding is heavily "processed" in order to achieve it's response curve i'm not entirely sure what it will do without it...
without published specs some testing and guesstimation will be involved
have you ever tested speakers for resonance measurements?
mental note : the b215a in my understanding is heavily "processed" in order to achieve it's response curve i'm not entirely sure what it will do without it...
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Um, not sure if it came from a B215A, I do know the B415's are sold with this woofer, but maybe they use the same as the B215.
I bought it on ebay myself, so I don't know where it came from, but it's from either a B215 or B415 or something. The model of woofer is 15W300A8, 300watts continuous @ 8Ohms.
And no, I've not ever made any resonance measurements, but perhaps its not too hard to learn?
And yes I'm sure that these woofers are used to having a tweaked amp considering those B215's and B415's are powered speakers so they're probably tuned just right. However I think I have the advantage of a bigger box than them?
EDIT: The B415DSP with this woofer (i'm pretty sure its this woofer) states down to 40Hz, and also states it has an integrated 24bit processor, so yes, the audio is quite processed for this response.
Thanks for your help.
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ok time to visit soundwest host Rod Elliott's web site or google "measuring theile/small parameters of loudspeakers"
a continuously variable(sweepable) audio oscillator is required!
a continuously variable(sweepable) audio oscillator is required!
Um, that looks quite complicated 😕
And it does say on that page that a computer based oscillator is fine.
I guess I'll see what I can do when I get the speaker (sometime this week).
so.. you don't have the driver?
well i hope it's ok i've long ago learned not to buy stuff off ebay no matter how good the price!
if the resonance measurement stuff seems intimidating don't worry it's not really.
didn't you mention building an amp or two?
well i hope it's ok i've long ago learned not to buy stuff off ebay no matter how good the price!
if the resonance measurement stuff seems intimidating don't worry it's not really.
didn't you mention building an amp or two?
Not yet I don't, but hopefully sometime this week I will, and if its messed up, I'll buy another, I really am interested in hearing some actual Pro Audio in my own home. I've only gotten burned once out of about 100 ebay transactions, so I guess I have good luck 😀
Yeah that site you told me about looks intimidating at first but then again, doesn't everything?
And yes, I love to not only build but also to design my own tube and solid state amps. I've designed and built 2 tube amps from scratch and working on designing and building my first ss amp! I've never done any sort of measurements on any of those amps though, beyond just listening and seeing if the input and output look relatively similar on a scope.
Ah well, the time to type my suggestions, lots of responses.
Nobody seems to be talking to you, for some reason, so I'll offer my twopennyworth. Firstly, I note your user name, and suggest that solid state is a better choice for subwoofers, as the size/weight/price of the output transformer that produces real oomph down to fifteen Hertz is prohibitive (and all the nasty bits where amplifiers produce unpleasant distortion are filtered off). And building the sub active (with mixing for the stereo channels and high passed outputs, probably also amplified if you're building an entire system) seems to simplify mechanics enough to make up for the need to glue the components to the board to avoid them shaking and metal fatiguing themselves free.
For subwoofers you want reserve power, and efficiency (damping factor's nice, too, as is linear frequency response). At fifteen or eighteen Hertz, bigger=more efficiency. Most of the construction problems come from panels flexing, or buzzing (don't ever use blockboard, whatever that is in the States; it often has air cavities, and they invariably resonate and buzz.
Decent subwoofer horns are big. Think of a wavelength at 20Hz (1ms=1foot, engineer's approximation, and believe me, loudspeaker cabinets are lots of approximation. So, 20Hz=50ft – you can't get a wavelength into your living room); all right, it's volume that counts rather than linear dimension, but unless you want to build them into a false floor you don't want them sticking into the room too much, either. A straight front horn going down to fifteen Hz with 15" drivers (horn size tends to go up with the size if the cones; that's not essential, but bet that way) is about the size of a family car. All right, a Japanese car, not Detroit, but even so…Mind you, they can sound really good; I shared a smallish flat with a pair of folded horns about 5'6" by 3' by 18", about 25Hz cutoff, with 15" drivers, and the sound, even at low power, was glorious and enveloping – but I never married, so no WAF problems. Jus occasional neighbour discussions as to what music they were going to find themselves listening to. There are tricks when you're installing speakers to make the walls and floor extend the boundaries of the cabinet, and if you're not intending to move them around (or move house) poured concrete is an excellent building material, dense and rigid… no, perhaps horns aren't the most practical answer.
Sealed cabinets - in my youth known as 'infinite baffle" - get inefficient at low low frequencies, and require massive power amps and equalisation (not impossible with your setup). Transmission lines go down into earthquake frequencies quite well, but are quite big (not relative to bass horns, but…) and need a lot of power. So you'll probably want to go ported, and the problem with ported compared to the others (where horn equations give you flare rate and length as a factor of frequency response, and are basically driver independent) ported cabinets are calculated for specific cone/magnet characteristics, and the speaker resonance has a lot to say about the lowest possible frequency delivered (equalisation can't compensate for sudden signal polarity inversion). I don't know your Behringer, nor whether it can go down far enough to get classed as 'subwoofer' by my definition, but you should be able to look up cabinets recommended (and go into shock about the size).
OK, I've written enough to overwhelm you; I'll look into satellites in another post, but I suspect two voice rather than just tweeters, as 120Hz is about the highest crossover frequency recommended for sub/stereo crossover, and that's more the domain of full range or extended midrange than tweeter.
Nobody seems to be talking to you, for some reason, so I'll offer my twopennyworth. Firstly, I note your user name, and suggest that solid state is a better choice for subwoofers, as the size/weight/price of the output transformer that produces real oomph down to fifteen Hertz is prohibitive (and all the nasty bits where amplifiers produce unpleasant distortion are filtered off). And building the sub active (with mixing for the stereo channels and high passed outputs, probably also amplified if you're building an entire system) seems to simplify mechanics enough to make up for the need to glue the components to the board to avoid them shaking and metal fatiguing themselves free.
For subwoofers you want reserve power, and efficiency (damping factor's nice, too, as is linear frequency response). At fifteen or eighteen Hertz, bigger=more efficiency. Most of the construction problems come from panels flexing, or buzzing (don't ever use blockboard, whatever that is in the States; it often has air cavities, and they invariably resonate and buzz.
Decent subwoofer horns are big. Think of a wavelength at 20Hz (1ms=1foot, engineer's approximation, and believe me, loudspeaker cabinets are lots of approximation. So, 20Hz=50ft – you can't get a wavelength into your living room); all right, it's volume that counts rather than linear dimension, but unless you want to build them into a false floor you don't want them sticking into the room too much, either. A straight front horn going down to fifteen Hz with 15" drivers (horn size tends to go up with the size if the cones; that's not essential, but bet that way) is about the size of a family car. All right, a Japanese car, not Detroit, but even so…Mind you, they can sound really good; I shared a smallish flat with a pair of folded horns about 5'6" by 3' by 18", about 25Hz cutoff, with 15" drivers, and the sound, even at low power, was glorious and enveloping – but I never married, so no WAF problems. Jus occasional neighbour discussions as to what music they were going to find themselves listening to. There are tricks when you're installing speakers to make the walls and floor extend the boundaries of the cabinet, and if you're not intending to move them around (or move house) poured concrete is an excellent building material, dense and rigid… no, perhaps horns aren't the most practical answer.
Sealed cabinets - in my youth known as 'infinite baffle" - get inefficient at low low frequencies, and require massive power amps and equalisation (not impossible with your setup). Transmission lines go down into earthquake frequencies quite well, but are quite big (not relative to bass horns, but…) and need a lot of power. So you'll probably want to go ported, and the problem with ported compared to the others (where horn equations give you flare rate and length as a factor of frequency response, and are basically driver independent) ported cabinets are calculated for specific cone/magnet characteristics, and the speaker resonance has a lot to say about the lowest possible frequency delivered (equalisation can't compensate for sudden signal polarity inversion). I don't know your Behringer, nor whether it can go down far enough to get classed as 'subwoofer' by my definition, but you should be able to look up cabinets recommended (and go into shock about the size).
OK, I've written enough to overwhelm you; I'll look into satellites in another post, but I suspect two voice rather than just tweeters, as 120Hz is about the highest crossover frequency recommended for sub/stereo crossover, and that's more the domain of full range or extended midrange than tweeter.
Hello,
Yes there's no way I'd even consider using tubes for a 300watt woofer, I'm probably going to purchase a broken solid state pro amp and repair it, until then I can use a 200watt car amp I have in my house I guess.
I'm going to go for 300watts or more when I do buy an amplifier, and I definitely will not use MDF or particleboard, I'll make a decent cabinet.
I'd love to have the power that you describe with that huge horn box, but I'm afraid I just don't have the room for it really.
So it looks like after calculating some stuff about this woofer I'll be looking at making a ported box then. I don't think I'd call this a subwoofer, just a woofer. As far as cabinets for this specific woofer goes, they are all what I would call, tiny. Barely big enough to fit the woofer and not tall at all, or deep.
Thank you for your excellent advice, I know now that horns are not really a viable option!
Yes there's no way I'd even consider using tubes for a 300watt woofer, I'm probably going to purchase a broken solid state pro amp and repair it, until then I can use a 200watt car amp I have in my house I guess.
I'm going to go for 300watts or more when I do buy an amplifier, and I definitely will not use MDF or particleboard, I'll make a decent cabinet.
I'd love to have the power that you describe with that huge horn box, but I'm afraid I just don't have the room for it really.
So it looks like after calculating some stuff about this woofer I'll be looking at making a ported box then. I don't think I'd call this a subwoofer, just a woofer. As far as cabinets for this specific woofer goes, they are all what I would call, tiny. Barely big enough to fit the woofer and not tall at all, or deep.
Thank you for your excellent advice, I know now that horns are not really a viable option!
That looks pretty interesting actually, it's pretty much exactly the size I wanted and it states it "will equal or out run a single 18" BR*, of similar size, from ~ 40 Hz and up in terms of sensitivity"
I'm definitely going to consider making that cabinet!
Bit of an update, after initially building a 2'x2x2' cube, all glued together except for the front, I temporarily attached a front and used caulking to seal it and tried using it as a sealed enclosure. It was okay, but not great.
So today I started stage 2 of my plan, rip of the temporary front and construct the Cubo15 from my box! And so I did, mostly. I didn't put in any of the 3x triangles, or the 1 skinny piece of wood in the top above the woofer, however I did a test with it just like that.
Giving the woofer only probably 100watts, its amazing, absolutely blows me away. I'm also in the process of getting some pro amps and repairing them, and also building some enclosures for mids and highs, and I really can't wait until everything is put together!
So today I started stage 2 of my plan, rip of the temporary front and construct the Cubo15 from my box! And so I did, mostly. I didn't put in any of the 3x triangles, or the 1 skinny piece of wood in the top above the woofer, however I did a test with it just like that.
Giving the woofer only probably 100watts, its amazing, absolutely blows me away. I'm also in the process of getting some pro amps and repairing them, and also building some enclosures for mids and highs, and I really can't wait until everything is put together!
I may have some pertinent information about this project. These Behringer PA speakers actually produce pretty good bass, they're not subs by a home audio standard but they're not totally anemic either and perform well in modest sized ported cabinets. I had to replace a driver in one of my 12" Behringer cabs because it somehow got damaged(torn cone), the driver a 12w300A8 I swapped with an Eminence Delta 12LF which produced identical performance compared to the other all original box I have so I wouldn't be surprised if the 15" version would compare well to the driver you have. That may help you if you decide to build a reflex box for this thing, you should get good results using the TS parameters for the Delta15LF.
I have also built a Cubo15 extended with a 15" PA driver I have which is an older version of the KappaPro 15LF and can vouch for the capabilities of this design, I'd suggest you complete it with all internal panels and mount the driver conventionally with the cone facing out(not the frame) as that produces a smoother response.
As for what to put with this for mid-top there are tons of options but you will need something with pro audio sensitivity to keep up, an 8+1 using a pro audio low-mid driver and compression horn would certainly qualify.
I have also built a Cubo15 extended with a 15" PA driver I have which is an older version of the KappaPro 15LF and can vouch for the capabilities of this design, I'd suggest you complete it with all internal panels and mount the driver conventionally with the cone facing out(not the frame) as that produces a smoother response.
As for what to put with this for mid-top there are tons of options but you will need something with pro audio sensitivity to keep up, an 8+1 using a pro audio low-mid driver and compression horn would certainly qualify.
Thank you very much for your information, definitely nice to have some numbers to go off of, since I cant seem to find any for my actual woofer.
Do you think I should make the Cubo 15 Extended, or just regular? Its just that one piece removed from the top, and that one piece added to the internal structure and triangle modified isn't it?
My only complaint with this woofer currently is that although when sitting mostly completed, and externally airtight (however the inside of the box, all the structure is not yet airtight) it will shake all the junk in that garage and it feels loud (shakes my clothing and the box likes to try to vibrate away extremely slowly) it just doesn't sound like I think it should. It doesn't seem to hit, on the bass notes, and it doesn't create that feeling in your ears when theres a strum of a bass guitar in a song like most headphones do. Sure it shakes everything, and you can hear its loud, but it's not as intense as it should be. Its hard for me to explain really, maybe what I'm trying to say is that although it sounds loud, and shakes everything, it doesn't create as intense bass as it does loud bass. Well I admit that sometimes it does sound like I think it should, sometimes not, some songs it does, sometimes it seems weak.
Perhaps this is due to the missing triangles and the air leaks on the internal structure?
I hope I can get this sounding right, as I'm going to be spending some cash to make a nice box with mids and highs to go along with this.
I'll probably try to completely finish this box tommorow, airtight and all, and then give it a test.
Oh, one other thing, I've been using the beefiest home audio amplifier I've ever seen to power this woofer so far (until I buy and repair a pro amplifier), its a Kenwood KM-993, rated at 150WPC RMS, and since I have to use an external pre-amp I have no way of knowing how much I'm actually giving the woofer. I can't imagine this amp can put out much more than 150WPC (half the woofer's RMS), and I doubt I hit clipping on this amp, however I really dont know, as I dont have a proper crossover, only some tone controls, so while mostly bass, some of the distorted mids and highs creep out of this woofer. Yet after really cranking this today for about 30 minutes, when I was ready to be done for the day, I could swear I smelled a hint of a sour smell comming from the woofer. The magnet was only barely above room temperature, and I couldn't feel any heat on the spider or back of the cone (I can't reach inside the box to feel around the dust cap where the voice coil is) but I don't think it even got hot. I am wondering if perhaps this is normal for a tiny smell when woofers get warm? Though like I said I can't imagine this little amplifier being able to warm it up.
I'm not too worried about it as I could've just been me, or perhaps some dust on the amp or something like that.
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