Build a Hypex, SMPS or trafo?

[AP2]

You're right,
A good product has to struggle against big marketing (false).
Regard to measures on SMPS400, these are real.
about my (surprise), I'm sorry but I can not explain publicly the story. (I assure you that there is a problem below).
ok, as you see HYPEX told me that I did not buy smps400 and the problem is solved.
ok, I continue my work, putting everything I've learned even in the simplest of my products.
My English is not clear, sorry for this, but I think that what I said on this thread is very clear.

Regards

 

[Koifarm]

Dear ticksnleeches,

I am not a commercial seller, the modules will be avaible for selling after the test. I think that the chosen setup has enough potential to let hear the differences or not.

I find Hypex the best company for the DIY audiomarket and over the years they have expand they productrange so that some comparance is needed.

Ronny

 

[asbjbo]

SMPS + UcD + HxR for high efficiency loudspeaker?

I am working on a high efficiency active loudspeaker where all drivers will be 8-ohm units with sensitivities > 96 dB @ 2.83 V. The project objective is to deliver very high sound quality with realistic dynamics at realistic listening levels.

I plan to drive the speakers off UcD amps with linear power supplies, since I have built UcD700AD, UcD400AD and UcD180HG/HxR monoblocks before, and I know that they all sound very good. But the small size of the SMPS opens up new and interesting packaging options. Each speaker would need five amp modules, UcD180 or UcD400. Two SMPS400 should be able to deliver more than enough power to the five modules. And all of that could be hidden in the loudspeaker base.

It is unlikely that the amplifiers will be called upon to deliver full power very often, but the sound quality of the first watt will be very important. Any hiss through the amps will be audible.

So I wonder: If sheer power is not really an issue, is there a penalty to pay in sound quality for using the compact SMPS instead of the bulky linear PS? If there is a penalty, will there be a "golden ear approved" version of the SMPS later?

 

[AP2]

Hi,
I think this is ideal for your UDC700.
or you can try the new PSU from HYPEX for UDC700.

Regards

 

[AP2]

Hi,
When used with udc700, this psu have 10-pin flat-cable connector allowed to Direct udcAmp for all signal / protection.

Regards

 

[fram]

Hi AP2,

Could you tell me where I can find your SMPS PSU? (this one in the picture)

regards.

 

[tinitus]

I have to say, its very clever use of modern mounting materials
Showcase aluminium and device clips

Take away the fancy materials, and I dont see it being different from others
Just a print board with components

Tho Im not a skilled tech guy, I do happen to like careful mechanical design
But thats a different matter

 

[tinitus]

specify if for class D or AB Amplifiers (apparently no change)

Regards

I know it may have been mentioned, but why is it different for ClassD or AB ?

It was also mentioned that some classD work fine with a common analoge trafo supply, and others not
Is this significant ?
Is it all about low impedance supply ?
Fast or slow ?

 

[AP2]

I have to say, its very clever use of modern mounting materials
Showcase aluminium and device clips

Take away the fancy materials, and I dont see it being different from others
Just a print board with components

Tho Im not a skilled tech guy, I do happen to like careful mechanical design
But thats a different matter

---------------------------------
Hi Tinitus,
I think that mechanical or electronic or nuclear, have no "absolute" differences.
"matter" can take many forms in the universe.

 

[fram]

will be available from 30 March on the site "Audiopower.it" along with other new products.

Ok, thanks, i'm waiting

 

[AP2]

I know it may have been mentioned, but why is it different for ClassD or AB ?

It was also mentioned that some classD work fine with a common analoge trafo supply, and others not
Is this significant ?
Is it all about low impedance supply ?
Fast or slow ?

---------------------------
Hi,
this PSU is created only for audio amplifiers.
Difference is that in class D amplifier created a vacuum of absorption between the two sides of power alternating at frequency of the input signal (at power).
this psu becouse follows realtime demands of current, voltage controller in this case has a different calibration.

Regards

 

[tinitus]

Well, I have two monster trafos, about 2kwatt each, and makes only50-55Vdc(+/-)

Then I thought, hey why not try a classD in bridged mode, and get perfect use of these monsters

And now you say its not that simple

well, I dont expect to get totally independant neutral advice here

 

[AP2]

eh,eh,eh! this is very fantastic..nice engine for Amp.
make things complicated .. maybe...to give meaning to our time.
with transformer, amplifier was already good.

 

[luka]

Well, I have two monster trafos, about 2kwatt each, and makes only50-55Vdc(+/-)

Then I thought, hey why not try a classD in bridged mode, and get perfect use of these monsters

And now you say its not that simple

well, I dont expect to get totally independant neutral advice here

110vdc, full bridge class D would be a killer on this monsters, just getting one like this is something else
maybe 2x amp7 each in bridge...2x A LOT into 4R

 

[tinitus]

I expect to be looking fore high power stereo modules that are 2ohm stable, and drive them either bridged, or double stereo

 

[luka]

well this is the only one I can think of that could be usefull for your voltage and you'll have stereo or bridge option... I very much like my that will go into car

 

[TicksNLeeches]

Well, I have two monster trafos, about 2kwatt each, and makes only50-55Vdc(+/-)

Then I thought, hey why not try a classD in bridged mode, and get perfect use of these monsters

And now you say its not that simple

well, I dont expect to get totally independant neutral advice here

The only thing wrong with that kind of a supply is the weight should you have to carry it around with you. It's never "that simple", the skill with which you implement it, be it switch mode or otherwise, can easily be the deciding factor, unless you start with pure trash.

It seems this marketed SMPS could be load variant, but can it keep up, can it step up and down cleanly, how does the EMI profile change with load, and what good is it but to claim that extra few percent in efficiency, Or save that extra dollar in components? Was it really designed for music, or is its design only good for music. RIP.. Sometimes simple and robust is the superior solution.

"First watt" is marketing speak pertaining to partial amps who's distortion skyrockets with power. You can't be so careless with switchmode power, every watt is as important as the next, signal integrity and EMC rules the day. Learn how to implement it properly before complaining about noise, because you can take the best performing and measuring components and "break it" just by ignoring simple and basic conventions. No amount of marketing or snake oil will ever change that.

Perfect use of those monsters wouldn't be class D though, they're extreme overkill and completely absurd, which is fine but, perfect use it isn't. You could run a dozen channels off those easily.

"It was also mentioned that some classD work fine with a common analoge trafo supply, and others not Is this significant ? Is it all about low impedance supply ? Fast or slow ? "

The same basic properties that make a good supply for conventional amps are the same that make a good supply for class d amps, only they're far more critical with greater real consequences if ignored. No voodoo required. What you might be confused by is that open loop class d amps have no PSRR at all, therefore the supply must be very well regulated, and if you think about how you'd do that, you begin to see why we don't like open loop class d amps.

AP2, how is it you can offer free samples and still claim no affiliation?

 

[tinitus]

Perfect use of those monsters wouldn't be class D though, they're extreme overkill and completely absurd, which is fine but, perfect use it isn't. You could run a dozen channels off those easily.

That thought just came natural when following the huge interest in heavy duty SMPS
And the continious arrival of new classD designs
Even if heavy, it doesnt need to be big, and no big heatsink
Many things to consider

Anyway, those trafos are more than 20 years old, and I bought them about 10years ago
Its either use them, or sell them
But its true, I can barely lift one of them, really heavy stuff
25A UI-core with secondary wire made of 2x5mm flat copper, you need force to bend it

But subject is SMPS or trafo
I just gave my humble input

 

[Ianmac]

I am having difficulty understanding the points you are making about SMPS.

I have just built two Hypex UCD400 series amp powered by their SMPS. The boards are made by Hypex and they are custom built for their product, including amplifier protection shutdown.
I am Driving 8 ohm ATC speakers with a sensitivity of 85db. While it is early days to comment, so far I cannot fault the audio performance. I appreciate my ears are still tuned to class AB product.
I had two minor technical issues which I have sent to Hypex and await their response.
I am unfortunately not able to compare the SPMS against a Linear PSU

Ianmac

 

[asbjbo]

IMHO, the difference between 0,01 % and almost 0,1 % distortion at 20 Hz will usually not be audible, especially if this is low order harmonic distortion, as I would suspect. The loudspeaker (any loudspeaker!) will produce far more distortion at such low frequencies, and the audibility threshold is far above 1 %. In other words, those three power supplies will sound identical in practice, if everything else is equal. The exception might be if the loudspeaker happens to be a fraction of a percent below the audibility threshold and this is the drop that pushes the total distortion over the threshold.

It would be interesting to see comparisons to linear power supplies, though.