This is a bit too technical for me to comprehend. Or maybe it's just a paranoid tecnophool explanation
mostly due to lack of good playback system and/or sensitivity.
You don't see what you don't want to see although it's banging right in front of your face.....you don't hear....what you don't want to hear...no matter how hard people are trying to get on you to make you hear the difference.
The combination of the two is even worse
I do tend to think the latter is more common: in my experience, even with non-top audio end system you can hear such obvious difference.
You don't see what you don't want to see although it's banging right in front of your face.....you don't hear....what you don't want to hear...no matter how hard people are trying to get on you to make you hear the difference.
The combination of the two is even worse
I do tend to think the latter is more common: in my experience, even with non-top audio end system you can hear such obvious difference.
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But it's OK to repeat the meme, "I have no evidence, this doesn't comport with anything known to any other field of science and engineering, but I nonetheless assert that the differences are real and that anyone who doesn't claim to hear the same thing as I claim is deaf and has a crappy system." That's "reasonable?"
audiodharm cablecooker
Hello friends,
Maybe it helps : Audiodharma CABLE COOKER™ with the new Extended Frequency Sweep (EFS) circuit. The swept square wave now starts at 0 DC and is calibrated at just over 40KHz, whereas the previous sweep started at just below 40Hz and reached 18.5KHz.Some manufacturers use the Cooker to break in transformers, capacitors, and bulk wire. Customers have successfully conditioned Bybee Quantum Purifiers, loudspeaker crossover networks, various line enhancers, parallel-design AC line conditioners and AC duplex receptacles.
Hello friends,
Maybe it helps : Audiodharma CABLE COOKER™ with the new Extended Frequency Sweep (EFS) circuit. The swept square wave now starts at 0 DC and is calibrated at just over 40KHz, whereas the previous sweep started at just below 40Hz and reached 18.5KHz.Some manufacturers use the Cooker to break in transformers, capacitors, and bulk wire. Customers have successfully conditioned Bybee Quantum Purifiers, loudspeaker crossover networks, various line enhancers, parallel-design AC line conditioners and AC duplex receptacles.
Stating that experience designers and non are fools for believing on braking in of caps, is a bit offensive.
You are free of expressing your skeptsism, of course!
Consider that a lot of people won't buy a specific part because of its long braking in time and that is a truth!
Do you think that it would be a smart bottom line strategy for a company to claim such a long breke in time as 300hours before start appreciatig its sonical qualities?
I would think that nobody with a bit of brain and some inclanation for business will do that.
Neither stating that their caps will sound great when in the reality they need brake in time, would be smart, 'cause people like analog and other will decide within few hours and they will think that is it.
Believe it or not: it takes time and patience to develop a good audio gear and part of the time is also "invested" on accurately evaluating parts used and sometime some of that time, yes...yes....is waisted on braking in.....but at the end....it might be shown that the time was well worth!
I just want to quote my personal experience with transformers:
I have been usign plitron standard on my project till couple of years ago when I started to look around for other manufatures.
Plitron is a very good product but sometimes and in some set up might be a bit top invading at low frequency.
I was suggested by a very regarded audio designer of this forum, to try out a specific transfomer.
So the day after i have ordered a couple of them.
When they arrived I happily unpacked the transformers and set them up right away.
The gap was too huge: Plitron was better on all the aspects.
I was very disappointed at that moment but I decided to not give in thus I let the transformer "cook" for a couple of days.
After 2 days I noted that the sound was different from the first time, so let it brake in for another couple of days.
All in all, at the end the new tranformer bettered the Plitron which was happily replaced.
Other crossed controlled auditioning sessions on other set up have shown the same results.
Conclusion? never be to impatience to wait.
Hope this helps.
You are free of expressing your skeptsism, of course!
Consider that a lot of people won't buy a specific part because of its long braking in time and that is a truth!
Do you think that it would be a smart bottom line strategy for a company to claim such a long breke in time as 300hours before start appreciatig its sonical qualities?
I would think that nobody with a bit of brain and some inclanation for business will do that.
Neither stating that their caps will sound great when in the reality they need brake in time, would be smart, 'cause people like analog and other will decide within few hours and they will think that is it.
Believe it or not: it takes time and patience to develop a good audio gear and part of the time is also "invested" on accurately evaluating parts used and sometime some of that time, yes...yes....is waisted on braking in.....but at the end....it might be shown that the time was well worth!
I just want to quote my personal experience with transformers:
I have been usign plitron standard on my project till couple of years ago when I started to look around for other manufatures.
Plitron is a very good product but sometimes and in some set up might be a bit top invading at low frequency.
I was suggested by a very regarded audio designer of this forum, to try out a specific transfomer.
So the day after i have ordered a couple of them.
When they arrived I happily unpacked the transformers and set them up right away.
The gap was too huge: Plitron was better on all the aspects.
I was very disappointed at that moment but I decided to not give in thus I let the transformer "cook" for a couple of days.
After 2 days I noted that the sound was different from the first time, so let it brake in for another couple of days.
All in all, at the end the new tranformer bettered the Plitron which was happily replaced.
Other crossed controlled auditioning sessions on other set up have shown the same results.
Conclusion? never be to impatience to wait.
Hope this helps.
SY I simply ask that you understand that high end audio was founded on the premise that stereo can be made to "sound better", not just measure better and has done quite well on this premise for many years. Can all of us that know what we hear, know what we like and dislike, be deaf? Sometimes things that work in one system, don't necessarily work in another. It is about synergy. I know when I change a component whether it is a good or bad decision based upon what I hear, not what I measure. I am sure that when something is horrible, there is some measurable reason for it.
Burn in for capacitors and transformers is very real to me in my experience and to others as well. Many here have given up on many Teflon capacitors due to the inherent bad sound that they exhibit for the first 100+ hours in a circuit. They do change with time. If you have not heard this, then I do not know what to say. I can certainly understand why many people have not heard the special qualities of the Teflons, that have not allowed them time to settle down in their circuits. Maybe I am deaf or crazy. If the latter please let me live in my blissful state of stupidity. It is my choice and I doubt at this point in my life and experiences, I will likely change.
All that we ask is to be free of ridicule for the things that we enjoy, the things that we hear and the peace to discuss them. I truly feel sorry for those that have to prove what they can not or will not allow themselves to hear. I offer a olive branch to you and all non believers to please allow us the same latitude with your realm of audio that you enjoy, without ridicule or argumentative reasoning.
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Yes, but of course no-one said that. They did say (and I was one of them) that these "experienced designers" haven't done the slightest bit of work to demonstrate these extraordinary claims, that claims like this are consistent with marketing of quack "technologies," and that they're far more likely wrong than right.
Sy,
Why on (flat)earth are you a moderator here in this so called "sanctuary"?
Observation is a big part of science but you totally toss that to the wind.
So far I really hate this "santuary" and when the moderators are just as bad as the ignorant naysayers it is no different than Audio Asylum,which by the way did I mention SUCKS.
I did notice John Curl posted, where is his stalker Steve Eddy. Just don't say the magic word "Bybee"!
Why on (flat)earth are you a moderator here in this so called "sanctuary"?
Observation is a big part of science but you totally toss that to the wind.
So far I really hate this "santuary" and when the moderators are just as bad as the ignorant naysayers it is no different than Audio Asylum,which by the way did I mention SUCKS.
I did notice John Curl posted, where is his stalker Steve Eddy. Just don't say the magic word "Bybee"!
My postings are as a member. Moderator postings are marked with a badge. As a member, what I'm doing here is giving the original poster the best advice possible, consistent with evidence, logic, and basic physics (my professional specialty is polymers, and I've done a reasonable amount of work on their electrical properties). You just don't agree with it, that's fine. Don't agree with the use of humor? That's fine, too. But don't question my right to post the best answers possible communicated the best way I know how.
You simply can not allow peace. You obviously do not agree with anything being discussed here and your input has zero relevance to this forum. Why do you continue to post your "scientific ideals" to those that could care less? All that I can see is that you get a charge out of upsetting and disrupting constructive discussions. As a moderator on these forums, I would think that you would realize that your actions have an adverse effect on the members of this particular forum (Tweakers). What do you want from us....blood? Our opinions will not be swayed by your continuing attacks and belittling comments. We get it we are all crazy, so please let us be to enjoy what we enjoy in peace!
sad indeed
It is indeed sad, such fragility of thought displayed that when a "discussion" seems to devolve into 'if you don't agree with our perspectives and opinions, get lost, you're not welcome here, we know better, you're a techological wank, propeller head, etc.'... especially when evidence refuting tweak-o justifications is overwhelming from critical applications in aerospace, medical, military and other fields... really seems to engender a search for the "truth", no??
We had a phrase when i was at Bell Aerospace many moons ago... "MMTB... more money than brains"
It is indeed sad, such fragility of thought displayed that when a "discussion" seems to devolve into 'if you don't agree with our perspectives and opinions, get lost, you're not welcome here, we know better, you're a techological wank, propeller head, etc.'... especially when evidence refuting tweak-o justifications is overwhelming from critical applications in aerospace, medical, military and other fields... really seems to engender a search for the "truth", no??
We had a phrase when i was at Bell Aerospace many moons ago... "MMTB... more money than brains"
I for one, find it very nice, to have an expert on polymers spend his time, explaining some of the effects (or the lack of).
That some people don't like the idea, that it's very easy to buy into something that isn't real, and that it has happened to themselves, well, sorry, that's the way the human brain works.
There are companies spending loads! of cash, on this sort of stuff. If they had a chance to squeeze just a little more out of a capacitor, when used in a satellite, or the like, they would sure do so, and it would be a known fact that it's done.
That sort of companies pays people like SY, and they pay well.
Here he gets the grand total of zero, for telling us this sort of stuff, and helping out with a good way of making progress, by explaining how to prove theories.
Some here ought to thank the guy, instead of whining over their hurting ego.
That way this could actually become a tweakers sanctuary, instead of quack sanctuary, which it resembles a lot more as is.
Magura
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If by "setting an example," you mean, "only saying things that Peter agrees with," I think I need to invoke Inigo Montoya, yet again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
Not at all, but if you fail to hear what others hear and then dispute what they hear as being impossible, as it is not measurable, what value is your input? You are simply creating tension where it is not wanted or needed. If anyone wants to know the technical side of things, they can always go to the main forums (Amplifiers, Line Source, etc) to find out the scientific side of things.
What good is a specific forum for "tweakers", when the moderators are allowed to post how ridiculous everyone's opinions that wanted this forum to discuss their thoughts and findings, as they are obviously mistaken as what they claim to hear, is just their minds playing tricks on them, as it is not measurable?
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