Gainphile, your latest with the 15" eminence has sent me off in a new tangent...
I was thinking of an OB desktop with with just Vifa A10CC-07 from Apexjr, though I'm still not sure if that's a good driver choice for OB.
If I do go down that road, should I pair it up with a 12" from Jaycar?
I was thinking of an OB desktop with with just Vifa A10CC-07 from Apexjr, though I'm still not sure if that's a good driver choice for OB.
If I do go down that road, should I pair it up with a 12" from Jaycar?
If you can grab any of those paper coned jaycar 12's do it, while limited to just a few watts they work extremely well on an OB, especially if you can make it big enough, can't comment on usig them with that particular mid thoough
No not that model, for OB the discontinued paper cone with the Qts of 1.26;; it's down to a few left in various stores I think I have collared the last in Melbourne, but I got mine for just under $20 each.
It has catalogue #2125
It has catalogue #2125
Yes the baffle needed to be 18 inches or the bass was non existant, even the paper coned CW2119 that were Gainphiles original work quite well if you can use 2 and make the baffle about 400mm wide with short wings
Those 10" papercone from Jaycar actually goes deeper than my eminence Alpha 15 (if paired). I think low Fs has alot to do with that.
The newer 10" and 12" have much lower Qts so I won't bother with those for $49 each. Unless equalised correctly.
I wonder if one can design an "all-Jaycar orion" based on these drivers. 😀 I may do that just for fun.
The newer 10" and 12" have much lower Qts so I won't bother with those for $49 each. Unless equalised correctly.
I wonder if one can design an "all-Jaycar orion" based on these drivers. 😀 I may do that just for fun.
The 12 inch go much lower due to a couple of factors; Fs is lower ( 32 nominal as against 40 nominal ) and Qts is higher.
Both drivers are X-max limited to 12 watts max, but that is actually quite loud, they won't rattle the walls or give explosive sound effects but they both sound good enough to recommend in this situation.
Try and find some 4 a side should work well even for me ( when I get a round to it that is ) or 1ten plus 1 12, but the midrange on the 10 inch sux
Regards
Ted
Both drivers are X-max limited to 12 watts max, but that is actually quite loud, they won't rattle the walls or give explosive sound effects but they both sound good enough to recommend in this situation.
Try and find some 4 a side should work well even for me ( when I get a round to it that is ) or 1ten plus 1 12, but the midrange on the 10 inch sux
Regards
Ted
Yes I concur. The 10" from my experience are only good from low to around 250-300hz, above that the resolution is very low.
As comparation, my Eminence Alpha 15 can nicely reproduce midrange up to 1500-3000Hz 😎 ... with correct notch of course.
As comparation, my Eminence Alpha 15 can nicely reproduce midrange up to 1500-3000Hz 😎 ... with correct notch of course.
I am beginning to think that the answer to the original question is yes but it depends on how big your bookshelf is.
Jaycar did have some 8inch paper coned woofers ( I have tried them ) if ultimate bass wasn't needed they seem to have the same resonance OB as the low string on a bass guitar some Jaycar stores still have stocks about $20 each last time I bought some, but no midrange definition so needs the extra driver and components to make 3-way
Jaycar did have some 8inch paper coned woofers ( I have tried them ) if ultimate bass wasn't needed they seem to have the same resonance OB as the low string on a bass guitar some Jaycar stores still have stocks about $20 each last time I bought some, but no midrange definition so needs the extra driver and components to make 3-way
BobEllis said:
Hi BobEllis
Thanks for the link. When I opened it I remembered I already had seen them, but memory... I think I will give the sketch idea a try, won't take me more than an saturday afternoon afterall!
Erik
I intend to use them on my desk as nearfields...space is at a premium
That'd defeat the purpose, space again gets in the way
I was wondering tho, if i can get passable extension down to 200Hz in nearfield application from the Vifas, why not have a separate dipole (sub?)woofer?
For near space you do not need the sheer volume (SPL ) so even an 8inch bass would do it.
I confess I am not familiar with that Vifa and not had time to search it.
Do you want a pair of the 8's, you can have them for the cost of postage plus $5 or come over and pick them up; they didn't sell at the garage sale you can experiment, why miss all the fun of making a dogs breakfast and having ti find out why and how to fix problems
Regards
Ted
I confess I am not familiar with that Vifa and not had time to search it.
Do you want a pair of the 8's, you can have them for the cost of postage plus $5 or come over and pick them up; they didn't sell at the garage sale you can experiment, why miss all the fun of making a dogs breakfast and having ti find out why and how to fix problems
Regards
Ted
Hi Moondog55,
If you don't get any interest from merajsalekj, I'll give you $30 for the pair of 8's, shipped to 2250.....are these the ones that they still sell, with a Q of 0.92, Fs of 39hz and power handling of only 30 watts, or are they a different 8" that comes from the previous range of response woofers? (to be honest, I'm more interested in them if they're not the the ones in the current catalogue....30watts is a little bit low, I want to do a small experimental active system).
If you happen to have any moderately interesting midranges too, I'll gladly make an offer.
(Background: I'm a broke student (OK, one of those words is redundant) who's never built a pair of speakers, but has mucked around enough with amplifiers and all manner of line level circuitry enough that an active OB seems like a perfectly achievable goal, given all the references that Linkwitz has given us on the topic. Oh, and my desk is too crowded already for even the smallest of dipoles, so even if I do build something that sounds fantastic, it'll be playing beautifully to a double garage)
If you don't get any interest from merajsalekj, I'll give you $30 for the pair of 8's, shipped to 2250.....are these the ones that they still sell, with a Q of 0.92, Fs of 39hz and power handling of only 30 watts, or are they a different 8" that comes from the previous range of response woofers? (to be honest, I'm more interested in them if they're not the the ones in the current catalogue....30watts is a little bit low, I want to do a small experimental active system).
If you happen to have any moderately interesting midranges too, I'll gladly make an offer.
(Background: I'm a broke student (OK, one of those words is redundant) who's never built a pair of speakers, but has mucked around enough with amplifiers and all manner of line level circuitry enough that an active OB seems like a perfectly achievable goal, given all the references that Linkwitz has given us on the topic. Oh, and my desk is too crowded already for even the smallest of dipoles, so even if I do build something that sounds fantastic, it'll be playing beautifully to a double garage)
Yes thats them, they are not worth $30, the $5 is an honest price; I have played with the cone material and they are heavily driven, but if that is $30 including shipping thats fair.
These were in this speaker
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2684886778_ba0d885e65.jpg?v=0
OK sound if you want a 3-way crossed over low, Jaycars power handling is way too optomistic X-max limited to 12 watts so RMS 4 or 5 but near-field thats "LOUD"
E-mail me privately and I'll let you know about my spare drivers ( I need to clear my shelves of old & excess drivers ) so the price will be right
These were in this speaker
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2684886778_ba0d885e65.jpg?v=0
OK sound if you want a 3-way crossed over low, Jaycars power handling is way too optomistic X-max limited to 12 watts so RMS 4 or 5 but near-field thats "LOUD"
E-mail me privately and I'll let you know about my spare drivers ( I need to clear my shelves of old & excess drivers ) so the price will be right
Thanks for the offer Ted....
Is that dust on the speakers? Or the cone treatment?
I agree...
how big a baffle would I need with the 8"s?
Is that dust on the speakers? Or the cone treatment?
I agree...
how big a baffle would I need with the 8"s?
Hi Ted,
Just emailed you, hopefully it finds you, had a few go walkabout before from these forums.
Thanks
Just emailed you, hopefully it finds you, had a few go walkabout before from these forums.
Thanks
If ever I saw a bookshelf size dipole, this is it. Sealed back, I understand and dipolar front section.
http://tinyurl.com/5nkmof
A novel design by Eric Alexander of Tekton of which one copy can be made on a DIY basis after signing an NDA. There is a thread on another forum about these:
http://tinyurl.com/5mt2a9
http://tinyurl.com/5nkmof
A novel design by Eric Alexander of Tekton of which one copy can be made on a DIY basis after signing an NDA. There is a thread on another forum about these:
http://tinyurl.com/5mt2a9
Both dust and cone treatment, the baffle shown is 300mm with sides 100 deep.
I would say that 300 X 450 tall would do, but everything depends on every thing else as the saying goes.
There are some stocks of these drivers left in various jaycar stores but none of the 10's or 12's ( I have looked I need one more 12 )
The 8 has a lousy midrange, I'd probably use it crossed first order with as big an inductor you can afford as a low bass helper and use a good full range as the mid-woofer. Some of the old Tandy Radio Shack driver sound good, I have a pair of 8's I experimented with a while ago and they were good up to 4000, better crossed lower of course.
Where are you situated??
I would say that 300 X 450 tall would do, but everything depends on every thing else as the saying goes.
There are some stocks of these drivers left in various jaycar stores but none of the 10's or 12's ( I have looked I need one more 12 )
The 8 has a lousy midrange, I'd probably use it crossed first order with as big an inductor you can afford as a low bass helper and use a good full range as the mid-woofer. Some of the old Tandy Radio Shack driver sound good, I have a pair of 8's I experimented with a while ago and they were good up to 4000, better crossed lower of course.
Where are you situated??
So, I spent a couple of hours mucking around with Basta!, Edge and Excel tonight.....and I plotted some nice little graphs about performance in OB for the old Jaycar 8"s.
The simulated baffle was 50cm wide and 100cm tall, with the driver 25 cm from the floor.
On this graph, the levels are normalised such that the MAXIMUM power is 1 watt. That is, the unequalised response shows the response at 1 watt, and the equalised responses show the SPL when maximum available power is 1 watt.
Not shown is the lowpass response, because it was too much effort to graph.
The raw OB response is nothing to call home about...with an appropriately placed 2nd order lowpass to counter the rising response, it has a -3dB point a bit above 50 hz.
However, while resulting in limits on output volume, this can be extended to about 27 hz using 6dB/octave from 300z. When combined with a linkwitz transform, this can reach 20hz, but at the cost of reducing output at 1 watt to just 79.5dB, which is, I'll grant, really rather low. It does make the resulting system a rather nice match to the HiVi B3S, though, and the nearly flat resulting acoustic output should be easy to crossover.
By my estimation, then, 2 per side would reach 82.5dB, the stereo pair 85.5dB, and, given a slightly optimistic power handling estimate of 8 watts RMS, a maximum output volume of 94.5dB, which is...ordinary, but not too bad, and performance ought to be better still in real life, with actual musical content <50hz generally a) transient and b) pretty quiet.
The simulated baffle was 50cm wide and 100cm tall, with the driver 25 cm from the floor.
On this graph, the levels are normalised such that the MAXIMUM power is 1 watt. That is, the unequalised response shows the response at 1 watt, and the equalised responses show the SPL when maximum available power is 1 watt.
Not shown is the lowpass response, because it was too much effort to graph.
The raw OB response is nothing to call home about...with an appropriately placed 2nd order lowpass to counter the rising response, it has a -3dB point a bit above 50 hz.
However, while resulting in limits on output volume, this can be extended to about 27 hz using 6dB/octave from 300z. When combined with a linkwitz transform, this can reach 20hz, but at the cost of reducing output at 1 watt to just 79.5dB, which is, I'll grant, really rather low. It does make the resulting system a rather nice match to the HiVi B3S, though, and the nearly flat resulting acoustic output should be easy to crossover.
By my estimation, then, 2 per side would reach 82.5dB, the stereo pair 85.5dB, and, given a slightly optimistic power handling estimate of 8 watts RMS, a maximum output volume of 94.5dB, which is...ordinary, but not too bad, and performance ought to be better still in real life, with actual musical content <50hz generally a) transient and b) pretty quiet.
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