Jon, I'm trying to find my measurements, but I think I lost them...
Do you match FR with 12dB smoothing? I remember that it was almost impossible to match FR below 1K because the room is so disturbing. If you would not mind publishing the example of measurement files, I'll use them as a reference for my next ABX test. I would like to referee.
Do you match FR with 12dB smoothing? I remember that it was almost impossible to match FR below 1K because the room is so disturbing. If you would not mind publishing the example of measurement files, I'll use them as a reference for my next ABX test. I would like to referee.
You are right. He is not going to accept that the restrictions employed in his test render the results of little value to anyone who does not replicate those same restrictions in their listening environment.
Again you oversimplify the entire subject. Nowhere do you include parameters such as harmonic distortion and dynamic range, which are essential to listener satisfaction.
And to assume that someone knows that they will never want to exceed 95db is naïve and misleading. Maybe if all you ever listen to is Diana Krall it would be alright, but certainly not for Tchaikovsky or Mahler. So why would anyone want to invest in a speaker that had inherent limitations.
Sure, you can make the case that FR and SPL are important. But that's just the beginning of the story. Not the end. There are other very important parameters that should not be ignored just to save a few dollars.
To put it another way, those are necessary, but not sufficient parameters for a satisfying driver selection. Yet, you tend to minimize the others to the point of misleading people here. That has been and continues to be my objection to your posts.
classicalfan, oh please, I am not misleading anyone here. Especially not in the ocean of misleading (dis)informations that is audiophilia in general...
But since you're gracefully accusing me to ''oversimplify things'', let me introduce you to my dear friend, William of Ockham.
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
But since you're gracefully accusing me to ''oversimplify things'', let me introduce you to my dear friend, William of Ockham.
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
Fair enough.
Do the very same test with a common woofer and a common tweeter.
Problem solved.
Happy?
I'm starting to think that you're making fun of me... 😱
okay let's play a game with some scenarios: driver A measures 8% THD and driver B measures 0.1% THD...
Scenario 1: nobody was able to identify A from B.
Scenario 2: someone or everyone was able to identify A from B.
What's next?
We adjust the SPL or change whatever you want to reduce the THD to 0.1% from driver A.
Then, scenario 3: nobody is able to identify A from B, once adjusted.
Scenario 4: doesn't exist because the THD was not a factor that triggered an identification because... guess what... wait for it... NO positive identification happened.
You follow?
So basically, whether 8%, 0,1% or 0,0003% THD each single drivers were during that test... No (AUDIBLE) threshold was found, about anything, including THD.
But before you drift in your reasoning, please, don't me wrong (again).... That was NOT, and I repeat, that was NOT a blindtest about THD. The threshold could have been ANYTHING. Imperfect FR, Power response, or Harmonic Distortion...
But no threshold. None. Niet. Nada.
No further analysis was needed BECAUSE no threshold was found.
NOW, if it pleases you to make blindtest strictly about THD, be my guest. You may find the audible threshold to be 5% for 40hz or 0.3% for 12345hz... I don't know. Studies were already made about it, i'm just to lazy to ask Google...
... also, that was the 3rd blindtest that showed we are overestimating our hearing capabilities.
It's a pattern.
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You may not think you're misleading people, but I do.
Your conclusions are based on a very specific and somewhat complicated set of test conditions. Conditions that most people here will not typically encounter in their listening environment. You then try to extrapolate your conclusions to the general case. But it does not follow.
And thanks for bringing up Occam's razor, which is essentially "other things being equal, simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones". It seems to me the very complex conditions encountered in your testing are in direct conflict with this principle.
Here we go again....
Classicfan... I never assumed that Jane Doe would never want to taste the immense joys that listening to Tchaikovsky could bring at 97db, 102db or even 147db if she really wants to live an experience as much physical as transcendent ...
We simply determined, for strictly practical reasons, that the maximum listening level of 95db was both realistic and comfortable in the context of this test. We received exactly 0.00 complaints in this regard from participants, which included grumpy audiophiles in need of donuts. I try to put humor in my answer, do not blame me, It's saturday, I'm isolated in a cabin, thank you, it's appreciated.
Can I bribe you with a donut? while we listen to Tchaikosky? At moderately high SPL?
You still don't understand what I am saying. I don't care if everything you just posted above is true or not. It's not relevant to my point.
My complaint is that based on tests you have run in the past you have made a very strong point that in choosing a midrange driver for a project cost and quality are pretty much irrelevant. You are saying that the drivers are all pretty much the same, so the person might as well choose the cheapest one.
That's the bad advice that I keep complaining about.
classicfan, don't misinterpret Mr. Ockham for god sake the guy is dead for over 700 years he can't defend himself on diyaudio!!
May I interest you in a pair of Voxativ AC-2.5 ?
Sounds delicious. It's very expensive. You'll love it.
Do I really need to go all the pages back and self-quote everything I already said about that?
I am, at this very moment, testing a speaker project, that is using a 250$ midrange.
250 dollars. 500$ a pair. That's hardly the cheapest one, is it?
why, then, would I go against my own ''very strong point''...
?
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yeah, exactly, more like 800$CAD with shipping, broker, custom fees, and not to mention taxes... 😡
and yet, according to classicalfan, I am MISLEADING everyone on DIYaudio, with the idea that purchasing the cheapest possible drivers is the only way to go...
So what it seems you're announcing is that high end sq as an exclusive concept whose attributes for the past 60 years have been out of reach for most of us is not only out of date, but usurped and rendered obsolete by readily available cheap electronics. So what's new?
I don't care what you say, I can still remember the difference I heard 40 years ago among the gear I auditioned when shopping at the brick and mortar shops.
But that doesn't change your point, a good one.
I don't care what you say, I can still remember the difference I heard 40 years ago among the gear I auditioned when shopping at the brick and mortar shops.
But that doesn't change your point, a good one.
At least you know what you should have done to make listening to music a viable test.
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