The idea would be to build speakers with a sub box separated from the mid-high range to facilitate transport and positioning. Here's what I came up with drawing inspiration from the "the loudspeaker" project :
- 40-200hz: l18p200n box reflex 200liter (i have)
- 200-1200hz: 10NMBA520 sealed box 18lt (to buy)
- 1200-10000hz: rcf n980+h6040 (i have)
- 10000-20000hz: Beyma CP21/F (to buy)
bi-amped with powersoft amplifier, basic crox and correct with dcx2496
can it work? Can you help me find something wrong before I waste money and time?
- 40-200hz: l18p200n box reflex 200liter (i have)
- 200-1200hz: 10NMBA520 sealed box 18lt (to buy)
- 1200-10000hz: rcf n980+h6040 (i have)
- 10000-20000hz: Beyma CP21/F (to buy)
bi-amped with powersoft amplifier, basic crox and correct with dcx2496
can it work? Can you help me find something wrong before I waste money and time?
The RCF combo can work pretty low. I wouldn't cross to a 10". Crossing to a 15" around 800hz would be a better match. Can probably easily work down to 600hz in a home setting.
You can even run the 18" up to 600hz and get some modern subs at a later time.
You can even run the 18" up to 600hz and get some modern subs at a later time.
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40 - 80 Hz
80 - 800Hz
800 - 8K
>8k
The reason is that the demands on a speaker below and above 80 Hz are considerably different. If you want a killer 40 Hz, 200 Hz from the same driver will be comprimised. 800-8K keeps the important harmonics together.
80 - 800Hz
800 - 8K
>8k
The reason is that the demands on a speaker below and above 80 Hz are considerably different. If you want a killer 40 Hz, 200 Hz from the same driver will be comprimised. 800-8K keeps the important harmonics together.
l18p200n+n980 they were part of a 100lt professional speaker but sounded bad.
no bass, no voice no cymbals
I'm using the L18P200N in a 170 liter vented box tuned to 31Hz. Very pleased with the performance. I'm crossing at 180Hz to a 8" midwoofer of similar sensitivity.
It's really tough to say without actually seeing the dispersion pattern of the H6040.
I'm guessing it's about an 80 degree window from 700 Hz to about 3 kHz. IF that's correct, then I'd be targeting that pattern and bandwidth for the driver/horn operation: say 900 Hz for the high-pass and about 3.5 for the low pass.
With that in mind, I'd be looking at a larger waveguide for a smaller midrange CONE driver, that could "mesh" with the 900 Hz 80 degree window of the driver/horn combo..
Maybe like this:
https://www.ddshorns.com/BassMid DMB 10N pro.pdf
I'm guessing it's about an 80 degree window from 700 Hz to about 3 kHz. IF that's correct, then I'd be targeting that pattern and bandwidth for the driver/horn operation: say 900 Hz for the high-pass and about 3.5 for the low pass.
With that in mind, I'd be looking at a larger waveguide for a smaller midrange CONE driver, that could "mesh" with the 900 Hz 80 degree window of the driver/horn combo..
Maybe like this:
https://www.ddshorns.com/BassMid DMB 10N pro.pdf
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You could probably DIY that 10" cone driver waveguide to get a very similar result.
As for the top-end..
This combo: (at a nice price no-less)
Peerless by Tymphany DFM-2535R00-08 Compression Driver | audioXpress
You would need to do some baffle vertical "angle"ing for best result (..like a Focal Scala Utopia loudspeaker).
If you didn't mind spending more money on the treble, a Beyma TPL-150H could probably be integrated in pretty nicely (even though the dispersion pattern isn't as good as the combo above).
Heck, with the right *high-pass the Radian LT2 could work (..and give you a bit more "air" off-axis at higher freq.s due to that weird horizontal dispersion "bump" at around 12 kHz).
Test Bench: The LT2 Ribbon Transducer and Waveguide from Radian Audio Engineering | audioXpress
*a higher order filter.
As for the top-end..
This combo: (at a nice price no-less)
Peerless by Tymphany DFM-2535R00-08 Compression Driver | audioXpress
You would need to do some baffle vertical "angle"ing for best result (..like a Focal Scala Utopia loudspeaker).
If you didn't mind spending more money on the treble, a Beyma TPL-150H could probably be integrated in pretty nicely (even though the dispersion pattern isn't as good as the combo above).
Heck, with the right *high-pass the Radian LT2 could work (..and give you a bit more "air" off-axis at higher freq.s due to that weird horizontal dispersion "bump" at around 12 kHz).
Test Bench: The LT2 Ribbon Transducer and Waveguide from Radian Audio Engineering | audioXpress
*a higher order filter.
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3.5 for the low pass I don't understand it, the combo n980 + h6040 was used in high quality 2-way systems
even in an old project 3way it was used as a hf from 1.5 to18khz
rcf kit 1300n:
Low section 2xL15/554K
Mid section L12P11OK
High N980 on H6040 horn
Passive crossover FC1300 250hz-1500hz
2 reasons:
1. The H6040 likely becomes (substantively) more directive above 3 kHz, and
2. You can get better subjective sound (particularly from an AMT or Planar) vs. what the N980 is capable of.
I might have suggested going up near 6 kHz if the H6040 does NOT become more directive relative to its dispersion below 3 kHz. Still, the lower the crossover freq. the easier the integration with respect to "combing" artifacts.
1. The H6040 likely becomes (substantively) more directive above 3 kHz, and
2. You can get better subjective sound (particularly from an AMT or Planar) vs. what the N980 is capable of.
I might have suggested going up near 6 kHz if the H6040 does NOT become more directive relative to its dispersion below 3 kHz. Still, the lower the crossover freq. the easier the integration with respect to "combing" artifacts.
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how do you know this?
i always knew the n980 was a reference driver, great power, high sensitivity (111db), great extension (500-18000) and great sound
update:
after reading and suggestions I would like to move away from the "the louspeaker" project and approach my old idea of dividing into 4 ways:
- 30-100hz: l18p200n box reflex 255lt 35hz (original old project RCF) (i have)
- 100-1000hz:12NDA520 (difficult to find, alternatively the brother in ferrite 12MB700) box 45lt (to buy)
- 1000-10000hz: rcf n980+h6040 (i have)
- 10000-20000hz: ? Beyma CP21/F ( or other to buy)
after reading and suggestions I would like to move away from the "the louspeaker" project and approach my old idea of dividing into 4 ways:
- 30-100hz: l18p200n box reflex 255lt 35hz (original old project RCF) (i have)
- 100-1000hz:12NDA520 (difficult to find, alternatively the brother in ferrite 12MB700) box 45lt (to buy)
- 1000-10000hz: rcf n980+h6040 (i have)
- 10000-20000hz: ? Beyma CP21/F ( or other to buy)
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The increase in directivity is typical for large 60x40 horns like this (..and they usually tend to lose directivity around 700 Hz.)
As for the subjective difference between a small planar in a waveguide vs. a large format driver in a deep horn when comparing the top two octaves: experience. Almost always better clarity from the low mass driver at higher freq.s..
just last night I decided to use Faital Pro for what I miss. Another thing I don't like about "the lodspeaker" design (besides the 10 "mid which forces the subwoofer to go up to 200hz) are the complex crossowers.
I have always been of the opinion that a good project must have crossovers with minimal components.
Faital Pro has less sensitivity but it is more linear and it will be easier to have a good final result
but for now I don't want to give up the idea of the 4 way with a supertweeter so I thought about the beautiful FD371 that I can cross to the n980 as I want, from 4 to 10khz
new setup:
- 30-100hz: l18p200n box reflex 255lt 35hz (original old project RCF) (i have)
- 100-1000hz: 12PR330 closed box ?liter (to buy)
- 1000-?10000hz: rcf n980+h6040 (i have)
- ?10000-20000hz: FD371 (to buy)