yep, you showed me those before, i was not sure what was that all about, when i look at the specs, it does look good 😀
How much is it? EQ would not throw it away for the amplifier and VC, and should be able to compensate any difference in Q (minimum-phase phenomenon)
But I guess if the sensitivity is not much higher then as you say this is just a waste of strength...
shipping is also a matter of concern for us Europeans, making the 416 even more appealing in comparison...
I hope you will be able to post measured T/S, as well as close range frequency response measurements of those two drivers.
I cannot trust the the response curves published by GPA for the 414/416/604, looks like copy/paste in mid band :
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/414-8B Spec Sheet.pdf
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/416-8B Spec Sheet.pdf
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604E Series II Spec Sheet.pdf
I can understand some form of copy/paste for a given speaker measurement (close range pressure measurement for the lows, and gated 1 or 2m measurement for the mids and highs), but these look too identical among the 3 drivers...
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Thanks, Gary.
I guess Bill is going to be busy this year 😉
The only other comparison I'd love to see is the 416 against one of the Beyma woofers some people swear by, i.e. the 12P80Nd and the 15P80Nd, especially in a midbass application like this. I know, the 12P80Nd is of course smaller than the 416/515/TD15M but many say it's truer than its bigger brother, the 15P80Nd, and I can't imagine it not being capable enough for your application (100-700 Hz).
I guess Bill is going to be busy this year 😉
The only other comparison I'd love to see is the 416 against one of the Beyma woofers some people swear by, i.e. the 12P80Nd and the 15P80Nd, especially in a midbass application like this. I know, the 12P80Nd is of course smaller than the 416/515/TD15M but many say it's truer than its bigger brother, the 15P80Nd, and I can't imagine it not being capable enough for your application (100-700 Hz).
Indeed, I did miss the legend.
How can they simulate such midband aberrations using T/S parameters?
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Gary's preliminary measurements indicate a Qts of 0.26 for both 416 Alnico's, and a Qts of 0.2 for both 515 Alnico's. The 515 Alnico is 1.5 dB more efficient than the 416 Alnico, after correcting for the 416 being an 8-ohm driver and the 515 a 16-ohm driver (both drivers can be ordered in 8 and 16-ohm formats).
I should emphasize these preliminary measurements, but Gary used both TD15M's as a cross-check, and got results within a few percent of the published AE figures.
Sidebar: For people who own tube amps, the driver impedance is largely irrelevant, since there's a selection of 4, 8, and 16-ohm taps on the output transformer, and vacuum-tube amps do not need current-limiting protection circuits. In terms of the power envelope the amplifier can deliver, vacuum tubes can be thought of as constant-power devices that self-limit in voltage and current domains. To repeat, the Beyond the Ariel project is only for people who own Class A direct-heated triode amplifiers with power outputs in the 3 to 20-watt range. Owners of Class AB transistor amplifiers have a very wide variety of loudspeaker choices.
I should emphasize these preliminary measurements, but Gary used both TD15M's as a cross-check, and got results within a few percent of the published AE figures.
Sidebar: For people who own tube amps, the driver impedance is largely irrelevant, since there's a selection of 4, 8, and 16-ohm taps on the output transformer, and vacuum-tube amps do not need current-limiting protection circuits. In terms of the power envelope the amplifier can deliver, vacuum tubes can be thought of as constant-power devices that self-limit in voltage and current domains. To repeat, the Beyond the Ariel project is only for people who own Class A direct-heated triode amplifiers with power outputs in the 3 to 20-watt range. Owners of Class AB transistor amplifiers have a very wide variety of loudspeaker choices.
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Thanks for the link. This must be the first GPA measurement plot I've seen.
It seems to be a little 'rich' in nonlinear distortion. What worries me is the dominant odd order distortion in 200Hz - 1kHz range.
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Originally Posted by pos
Indeed, I did miss the legend.
How can they simulate such midband aberrations using T/S parameters?
Makes one wonder what the GPA 416/515 upper peak looks/sounds like.
Art
Indeed, I did miss the legend.
How can they simulate such midband aberrations using T/S parameters?
Yes, it is interesting to see how close Wippersnapper's measurements for upper response (his test protocol is not accurate below around 200 Hz) for the B&C NW15NW76 matches B&C's measurements, while GPA's 414-8B 12" simulation does not include the 7 dB (or so) peak around 1600 Hz.
Makes one wonder what the GPA 416/515 upper peak looks/sounds like.
Art
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With distortion at -40 dB, around 1% at 19 volts (around 45 watts) the GPA 414 distortion does not make me worry.
The B&C 15NW76 distortion at -50 dB is about .3%, but the upper F3 and F5 distortion looks similar in content.
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I would like to find driver which has clearly dominating 2nd order distortion. Not particularly high in absolut level, but 2nd order should be the highest.
Like this driver here:
Pics from here:
'http://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=323'
.
Like this driver here:
Pics from here:
'http://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=323'
.
Which, of course, just goes to show how little you know me. 🙄
The problem was - I had measured.
I pondered that very thought while planning the recent modifications. Spent a lot of time googling, but couldn't find anything useful. Decided to take the plunge anyway.
I'll see what I can do.
Gary Dahl
I have a pair of original 414z 16Ω if anybody wants me to measure something with those. I don't have a box for them, though.
