Bien entendu, but it's putting a bandage on a corpse. I don't like to use microphonic tubes in the first place, and when it's necessary to do so, shock mounting the socket is the best approach.
I do have some extremely microphonic Teflon cable, so I can admit the possibility of a microphonic socket. I just never ran across one.
I do have some extremely microphonic Teflon cable, so I can admit the possibility of a microphonic socket. I just never ran across one.
HELLO?
Hi,
Hmmm, not quite but close enough.
Surely there's no relationship between insulator materials and contacts?
It seems most of these bad experiences come from badly designed Chinese junk.
Take a look at the Johnson or Swiss Shurter sockets and you'll notice soon enough where corners were cut designing the Chinese cheapos.
PTFE sockets are hard to come by nowadays, using shockmounts is just as effective and there are other ways to combat microphony IMHO.
FWIW, the noval chassis mount British sockets are absolutely gorgeous, built by BVA? for the military these sport the best contacts I've ever seen...and this is from someone who's actually designed some. (mild blush here).
Cheers,
Hi,
Hmmm, not quite but close enough.
Surely there's no relationship between insulator materials and contacts?
It seems most of these bad experiences come from badly designed Chinese junk.
Take a look at the Johnson or Swiss Shurter sockets and you'll notice soon enough where corners were cut designing the Chinese cheapos.
PTFE sockets are hard to come by nowadays, using shockmounts is just as effective and there are other ways to combat microphony IMHO.
FWIW, the noval chassis mount British sockets are absolutely gorgeous, built by BVA? for the military these sport the best contacts I've ever seen...and this is from someone who's actually designed some. (mild blush here).
Cheers,
MICROPHONIC SOCKETS???
Hi,
Huh??? A microphonic tube...yes, a microhonic cable? Certainly.
But a microphonic socket? That one would be working rather intermittently, wouldn't it?
Rather than concentrate on insulating materials, I'd rather concentrate on how the pins of the tubes are captured.
Cheers,
Hi,
Huh??? A microphonic tube...yes, a microhonic cable? Certainly.
But a microphonic socket? That one would be working rather intermittently, wouldn't it?
Rather than concentrate on insulating materials, I'd rather concentrate on how the pins of the tubes are captured.
Cheers,
Teflon and a drill press would be the best place to start experimenting. I use silver sheet for the pin sleeves but my next design will use nothing but the hook-up wire (no solder joint), the tube, and the socket.
Ceramics really muck up the sound.
I just bought a CNC mini mill for making sockets and other things to a higher level.
Ceramics really muck up the sound.
I just bought a CNC mini mill for making sockets and other things to a higher level.
Attachments
Re: GOOD LUCK.
Almost , the next step is to use just resistance between the socket and pin to hold the hook-up wire and make the contact. No solder needed at all. Still allows tube rolling but eliminates the contacts and the solder joint.
Ceramics sockets are like having millions of tiny connections between the pins on the tube and all the noise that results from those connections.
Yep it sure does. Not as bad as ceramic of course.
I know whats next but I can't share it at this time.
fdegrove said:
Almost , the next step is to use just resistance between the socket and pin to hold the hook-up wire and make the contact. No solder needed at all. Still allows tube rolling but eliminates the contacts and the solder joint.
Think of ceramic resistors.fdegrove said:
Ceramics sockets are like having millions of tiny connections between the pins on the tube and all the noise that results from those connections.
fdegrove said:
I heard that PTFE mucks up the sound too so what's next?
Happy building.
Yep it sure does. Not as bad as ceramic of course.
I know whats next but I can't share it at this time.
DIY tube sockets
On the picture below You can see on the left a socket and on the right the correspending plug. Both are of the same type basicly - just of different size. Those kind of sockets are avaiable in various sizes (4mm, 2mm, 1,3mm and down to 1mm & even somewhat smaller and without the plastic insulation piece) and also with this kind of spring arrangement as from the plug shown on the right - only reversed constructed and inside the socket.
They are avaiable for about 50 (Euro) cents from every better electronic component provider and IMO are excellently suited for DIYing reliable tube sockets.
Material mostly is gold plated brass or other hard copper alloy sometimes.
With a piece of Teflon or whatever heat resistant (drillable) socket material of Your choice and a drill press as "tom1356" mentioned (those sockets are designed to press in as they are corrugated (?) on the outside) it should be not too difficult to do.
Never done this with a tube socket but DIYed sockets for a (also DIY) 12V low-voltage 50W (4A) halogen lamp as contacts of the readily avaiable ("high-quality") ceramic sockets for that purpose failed repeatedly (they simply burned away) after a week or so (and the lamps have died also very quickly). With my DIY sockets that problems have dissappeared immediately and I have no problems since 2 years anymore (and there is still the first!! lamp after that installation).
Well, halogen lamps is not tubes but at least this shows it would be possible to make DIY contacts which can resist high temperature while conducting quite some current (heaters) and which can be very reliable.
On the picture below You can see on the left a socket and on the right the correspending plug. Both are of the same type basicly - just of different size. Those kind of sockets are avaiable in various sizes (4mm, 2mm, 1,3mm and down to 1mm & even somewhat smaller and without the plastic insulation piece) and also with this kind of spring arrangement as from the plug shown on the right - only reversed constructed and inside the socket.
They are avaiable for about 50 (Euro) cents from every better electronic component provider and IMO are excellently suited for DIYing reliable tube sockets.
Material mostly is gold plated brass or other hard copper alloy sometimes.
With a piece of Teflon or whatever heat resistant (drillable) socket material of Your choice and a drill press as "tom1356" mentioned (those sockets are designed to press in as they are corrugated (?) on the outside) it should be not too difficult to do.
Never done this with a tube socket but DIYed sockets for a (also DIY) 12V low-voltage 50W (4A) halogen lamp as contacts of the readily avaiable ("high-quality") ceramic sockets for that purpose failed repeatedly (they simply burned away) after a week or so (and the lamps have died also very quickly). With my DIY sockets that problems have dissappeared immediately and I have no problems since 2 years anymore (and there is still the first!! lamp after that installation).
Well, halogen lamps is not tubes but at least this shows it would be possible to make DIY contacts which can resist high temperature while conducting quite some current (heaters) and which can be very reliable.
Attachments
Silver is not a particularly good material to use for a socket- the mechanicals are unsuitable for making a high-reliability gas-tight connection to the tube pins.
The conceptual model presented of conduction in ceramics is incorrect. The types of ceramic used in tube sockets and other insulating applications has extraordinarily low leakage.
But I do have to admire the ambition it takes to try to make one's own tube sockets. Not to mention my envy of the necessary sheetmetal and milling machine skills.
The conceptual model presented of conduction in ceramics is incorrect. The types of ceramic used in tube sockets and other insulating applications has extraordinarily low leakage.
But I do have to admire the ambition it takes to try to make one's own tube sockets. Not to mention my envy of the necessary sheetmetal and milling machine skills.
Tube Sockets
Whatever socket you decide to use, the tension and plating on the pins are important.
I am skeptical of any data that notes a change in distortion with regard to insulation material.
My favorite material is creamic. Ceramic tends to handle heat better than other insulators
In audio service dielectric absorbtion is not an issue.
The issue with any valve socket is the electrical connection of the filiment. The filiment is probably the highest with respect to ampacity. The annode and grids are typically draw much less current with respect to the filiment. I would prefer to see silver or gold pins connections.
Whatever socket you decide to use, the tension and plating on the pins are important.
I am skeptical of any data that notes a change in distortion with regard to insulation material.
My favorite material is creamic. Ceramic tends to handle heat better than other insulators
In audio service dielectric absorbtion is not an issue.
The issue with any valve socket is the electrical connection of the filiment. The filiment is probably the highest with respect to ampacity. The annode and grids are typically draw much less current with respect to the filiment. I would prefer to see silver or gold pins connections.
<a href="http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/axialtubesockets.html">Axial Type Tube Sockets</a>
"The Axial Series Tube Sockets are not made out of Teflon. They are made out of a special crosslinked Polystyrene. Teflon is really not suitable for audio tube sockets and, compared to some modern “high tech” plastics, is really not that good as an audio insulator. But, due to its reputation, using it does sell products. Teflon is too soft and “cold forms”. This means that any pressure, from a tube pin receptacle for example, will force the Teflon to deform. This explains why customers using the Teflon sockets experience problems with long term reliable tube pin contact and have even had the tube contacts fall out. "<hr width="95%" align=center>
The candidate plastics I have found are:
Syndiotactic Polystyrene
Dielectric Constant 1MHz . . 2.6
Dissipation Factor 1kHz . . . ?.??
Melting Temp . . . . . . . 270°C<hr width="95%" align=center>
High Impact Polystyrene HIPS Fire Retardant
Melting Temp. Range (°C) . .210 - 250
Dielectric Constant 1kHz . . 2.8
Dissipation Factor 1kHz . . . 0.0006<hr width="95%" align=center>
Polymethylpentene is optically transparent in far-infrared and visible parts of the spectrum, allowing the co-transmission of a HeNe laser alignment beam. Index of refraction is 1.46 and is relatively independent of wavelength. Loss is very low at mm-wavelengths and gradually increases until becoming unacceptable in the mid-IR at about 30 to 50 microns wavelength.
Because of its low density, TPX ® has high acoustic efficiency (a high damping factor due to large internal losses.) It also displays exceptionally low distortion and high power handling characteristics.
Melting Temp . . . . . . . 464°F 240°C
Dielectric Constant @ 1 KHz. . . . 2.12
Dissipation Factor @ 1 MHz . . . 0.000025
its also called TPX
hope this helps
regards
James
"The Axial Series Tube Sockets are not made out of Teflon. They are made out of a special crosslinked Polystyrene. Teflon is really not suitable for audio tube sockets and, compared to some modern “high tech” plastics, is really not that good as an audio insulator. But, due to its reputation, using it does sell products. Teflon is too soft and “cold forms”. This means that any pressure, from a tube pin receptacle for example, will force the Teflon to deform. This explains why customers using the Teflon sockets experience problems with long term reliable tube pin contact and have even had the tube contacts fall out. "<hr width="95%" align=center>
The candidate plastics I have found are:
Syndiotactic Polystyrene
Dielectric Constant 1MHz . . 2.6
Dissipation Factor 1kHz . . . ?.??
Melting Temp . . . . . . . 270°C<hr width="95%" align=center>
High Impact Polystyrene HIPS Fire Retardant
Melting Temp. Range (°C) . .210 - 250
Dielectric Constant 1kHz . . 2.8
Dissipation Factor 1kHz . . . 0.0006<hr width="95%" align=center>
Polymethylpentene is optically transparent in far-infrared and visible parts of the spectrum, allowing the co-transmission of a HeNe laser alignment beam. Index of refraction is 1.46 and is relatively independent of wavelength. Loss is very low at mm-wavelengths and gradually increases until becoming unacceptable in the mid-IR at about 30 to 50 microns wavelength.
Because of its low density, TPX ® has high acoustic efficiency (a high damping factor due to large internal losses.) It also displays exceptionally low distortion and high power handling characteristics.
Melting Temp . . . . . . . 464°F 240°C
Dielectric Constant @ 1 KHz. . . . 2.12
Dissipation Factor @ 1 MHz . . . 0.000025
its also called TPX
hope this helps
regards
James
EC8010,fdegrove,
re chinese ceramic sockets and personal opinion:
Perhaps so. I have purchased both 4 pin and octal with those pincers (imagning that those pincers were the best idea) and had bad experiences. I got them from Antique Electronic Supply. Not cheap either.
So, where do I find the good stuff? I suppose they would want $25 USD per socket.
Gabe
re chinese ceramic sockets and personal opinion:
Perhaps so. I have purchased both 4 pin and octal with those pincers (imagning that those pincers were the best idea) and had bad experiences. I got them from Antique Electronic Supply. Not cheap either.
So, where do I find the good stuff? I suppose they would want $25 USD per socket.
Gabe
25$?
Hi,
The Russian ones that new Sensor sells are decent sockets.
Gabe, don't pay 25 $ for a socket...that's crazy money.
I usually buy in large quantities 1,000 to 10,000 of each type and never, ever paid more than 50 cents except for the ceramic Jumbo four as used for 211/845 and such.
25$ is the price you may have to pay for an original EF Johnson Jumbo four pin and I would shell out that kind of cashfor them since I've found a better socket yet.
You never need a lot of those anyway.
If one day you need large quantities send me an e-mail and I'll tell how and where to buy in.
Cheers,
Hi,
The Russian ones that new Sensor sells are decent sockets.
Gabe, don't pay 25 $ for a socket...that's crazy money.
I usually buy in large quantities 1,000 to 10,000 of each type and never, ever paid more than 50 cents except for the ceramic Jumbo four as used for 211/845 and such.
25$ is the price you may have to pay for an original EF Johnson Jumbo four pin and I would shell out that kind of cashfor them since I've found a better socket yet.
You never need a lot of those anyway.
If one day you need large quantities send me an e-mail and I'll tell how and where to buy in.
Cheers,
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