Hi felipe,
that is a good example that opinions about how certain components sound should be taken with a grain of salt and are not transferable to other environments.
For my taste such kind of an amp is not really suitable to assess such components as interstage transformers properly.
The text says that the use of interstage transformers is important in such an amp because it avoids caps in the signal path. A common misconception which still is spread around. While transformer coupling indeed eliminates the coupling capacitor from the signal path it puts the B+ smoothing cap right into the signal path and I see stacks of electrolytics there.
In that design the driver and caps dominate the sound, hardly a siutable environment to judge transformers IMHO.
So my opinion: Don't take recommendations for granted, they might not work in a different environment. This includes my own recommendations. They are true for my amps and my taste, not necessarily yours.
At the end you need to decide yourself and judge with your own ears.
I have attended many listening tests and saw how quickly people jump to conclusions. Many factors play a role: prejudice, in this case may be even a little national pride 😉 also the overall equipment in which the test is done and of course listening habits and tastes.
There is no objective truth for components sounds which can be found on the net. I also don't have it, so also take my advices with the above precautions...
At the end you need to try yourself...
Thomas
that is a good example that opinions about how certain components sound should be taken with a grain of salt and are not transferable to other environments.
For my taste such kind of an amp is not really suitable to assess such components as interstage transformers properly.
The text says that the use of interstage transformers is important in such an amp because it avoids caps in the signal path. A common misconception which still is spread around. While transformer coupling indeed eliminates the coupling capacitor from the signal path it puts the B+ smoothing cap right into the signal path and I see stacks of electrolytics there.
In that design the driver and caps dominate the sound, hardly a siutable environment to judge transformers IMHO.
So my opinion: Don't take recommendations for granted, they might not work in a different environment. This includes my own recommendations. They are true for my amps and my taste, not necessarily yours.
At the end you need to decide yourself and judge with your own ears.
I have attended many listening tests and saw how quickly people jump to conclusions. Many factors play a role: prejudice, in this case may be even a little national pride 😉 also the overall equipment in which the test is done and of course listening habits and tastes.
There is no objective truth for components sounds which can be found on the net. I also don't have it, so also take my advices with the above precautions...
At the end you need to try yourself...
Thomas
Well, of course in the end your own ears decide. But hey - who's in the position of lining up half a dozen interstages when you look at what they cost?
I'm happy to listen to the opinions of Thomas and Kevin and some others and make judgements accordingly. Some degree of expert opinion is a lot better than no opinion at all!
Andy
I'm happy to listen to the opinions of Thomas and Kevin and some others and make judgements accordingly. Some degree of expert opinion is a lot better than no opinion at all!
Andy
Audio Catalog
Just saw James at 150 Euros each. Model JS-2008NM is 30mA, JS-2007N is 20mA. These have Nickel lams and are nicely potted.
Anyone tried James?
Just saw James at 150 Euros each. Model JS-2008NM is 30mA, JS-2007N is 20mA. These have Nickel lams and are nicely potted.
Anyone tried James?
Hi Thomas,
All opinions have to be taken just like opinions (with precautions), we know that last judge is our ears but here we are speaking Japanese stuff that cost a lot of money so again I ask for precaution because once payed no return and you has spent a lot of money. I no doubt about Japanese quality but I believe that European manufacturers can make excellent transformers without spending a lot of money.
I agree with you that we need to try ourselves what as Andy said opinions to make an idea will welcome, I always don't trust in that's the best guiding by the money or other minds like country price etc, I think in the best transformer in a specific/exact combo not in general and this statement always give me good results.
Cheers
Felipe
Hi Felipe,
I jully agree with you that money does not guarantee best quality. Nobody really said that. But unfortunately good quality only comes at a price. I also never said that only japanese transformers are the best. I happen to prefer the Tango NC20 over any other interstage I have heard so far. But I have of course not tried all that exist (but many).
Although the cost of Tango NC20 is quite high compared to others, I still believe that it gives among the best sound/cost ratios which are out there! I would rate the sound quality/price ratio of Lundahls at a similar level as Tango. With the Tangos you also pay for the housing of course, which is of superb quality, compared to what I have seen from James or Bartolucci.
Just to avoid the impression this is a biased opinion since I'm commercially in audio. I use Tango transformers (among others) in amps I sell, but I do not sell individual Tango transformers.
Best regards
Thomas
I jully agree with you that money does not guarantee best quality. Nobody really said that. But unfortunately good quality only comes at a price. I also never said that only japanese transformers are the best. I happen to prefer the Tango NC20 over any other interstage I have heard so far. But I have of course not tried all that exist (but many).
Although the cost of Tango NC20 is quite high compared to others, I still believe that it gives among the best sound/cost ratios which are out there! I would rate the sound quality/price ratio of Lundahls at a similar level as Tango. With the Tangos you also pay for the housing of course, which is of superb quality, compared to what I have seen from James or Bartolucci.
Just to avoid the impression this is a biased opinion since I'm commercially in audio. I use Tango transformers (among others) in amps I sell, but I do not sell individual Tango transformers.
Best regards
Thomas
I think you may find that Dave Slagle's transformers offer the best sound and value. Where A/B testing was done here his 80% nickel output transformers came out on top, even better than the Tango NY-10, if only slightly. As far as interstage transformers go, I haven't done any comparison testing but his type 50 amp with 80% nickel interstages and outputs is the most natural sounding and lowest audible distortion amp I've ever heard.
John
John
Yes - I'm listening to the 126C as we speak in driver position with a 4P1L. It's good but not excellent. It's worth the money. But I replaced the other 126C in my input stage (also 4P1L) with a Lundahl LL1660/18mA and that is clearer and more delicate in the treble. So yes, use the 126C to get your amp working and it will sound good, but I'd also recommend getting a Lundahl instead. I'd say the sound quality is worth the extra.
And at intactaudio I read that apparently the bifilar interstages can be regapped by the user. To quote JeffreyJ.
fwiw, I bet I have purchased maybe a dozen custom nickel bifilars from dave since this thread started.. all have a good home.. none have been displaced...
and the really cool thing about these is that you can regap them for different inductances and currents... and still get that couple hundred kilohertz bandwidth...
from this thread :: View topic - a 1:1 nickel IT for a 10
Same question but now for 1:1+1 inverted
Within the context of this 1:1 interstage "contest", I would be interested if anyone has experience using an 1:1+1 interstage in inverting mode. Reason is I want to drive the interstage in SE mode, but use it to split phase driving two output tubes in P-P. The most obvious choice is the Tango NC-14 but I haven't seen that working in phase-split mode. I should say, I never came across it, this type of deployment might exist somewhere though.
I know not all interstages are fully qualified for doing this as the performance of both secondaries might no longer be fully equal when one of them is used "in reverse" to accomplish the phase split due to internal parasitycs.
Cheers Leonard
Within the context of this 1:1 interstage "contest", I would be interested if anyone has experience using an 1:1+1 interstage in inverting mode. Reason is I want to drive the interstage in SE mode, but use it to split phase driving two output tubes in P-P. The most obvious choice is the Tango NC-14 but I haven't seen that working in phase-split mode. I should say, I never came across it, this type of deployment might exist somewhere though.
I know not all interstages are fully qualified for doing this as the performance of both secondaries might no longer be fully equal when one of them is used "in reverse" to accomplish the phase split due to internal parasitycs.
Cheers Leonard
Lundahl do models optimised for phase splitting - they have an "S" at the end of the model number.
http://www.lundahl.se/pdf/1660s.pdf
http://www.lundahl.se/pdf/1660s.pdf
Lundahl sphase split
Hi Andy, thing is the Lundahl supports 18mA and the Tango NC14 up to 30 mA on the primary SE side. I want to use a 300B as a driver, not much life in there at 18mA...
Cheers Leonard
Hi Andy, thing is the Lundahl supports 18mA and the Tango NC14 up to 30 mA on the primary SE side. I want to use a 300B as a driver, not much life in there at 18mA...
Cheers Leonard
I believe Lundahl can gap transformers to your specifications. Ask Thomas Mayer - he knows about all this.
Andy I see you were looking into this splitting stuff in 2002 already (audioasylum) was there any conclusion to that? I read a post from Peter de Bruyn (Acoustic Dimension) from then that he had better results with the NC14 than with Lundahls..anyway NC14 is what I have so that's what I will start with anyway..
Hi Leonard,
interstage transformers with spilt secondaries are routinely used as phase splitters.
As Andy wrote: The Lundahls can be gapped for a wider range of currents. LL1660 for example up to 36mA.
The NC14 can support 30mA only with the primaries paralleled. The same can be done with a LL1660. A LL1660/18mA can carry 36mA DC when the primaries are wired in parallel. Inductance is then reduced to one quarter (same with the NC14).
Since you have the NC14 already, use it. It is a nice interstage
Thomas
interstage transformers with spilt secondaries are routinely used as phase splitters.
As Andy wrote: The Lundahls can be gapped for a wider range of currents. LL1660 for example up to 36mA.
The NC14 can support 30mA only with the primaries paralleled. The same can be done with a LL1660. A LL1660/18mA can carry 36mA DC when the primaries are wired in parallel. Inductance is then reduced to one quarter (same with the NC14).
Since you have the NC14 already, use it. It is a nice interstage
Thomas
LL1635 as phasesplitter interstage - tubes.peter - Tube DIY Asylum
Here's a post by Peter de Bruyn where he finds the Tango NC14 perfect for phase splitting. He had problems of imbalance and poor frequency response with LL1660 and LL1635 as phase splitters, but these were not the S versions Lundahl specifies for splitting.
Here's a post by Peter de Bruyn where he finds the Tango NC14 perfect for phase splitting. He had problems of imbalance and poor frequency response with LL1660 and LL1635 as phase splitters, but these were not the S versions Lundahl specifies for splitting.
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