Thadman,
This is all I could dig up on the 18sound 15ND930.
This is coupled with a tweeter crossed pretty low, but
it's better than no curves at all...
Good thing you speak German fluently.
Linky
Well, since I speak just a little german, here's the frequency response
Combined Freq
here is the waterfall
Waterfall
And here is the woofer all by itself:
Woofer only
Not much help answering your question of it's use as a midrange, but
at least you can see it's fairly free of nasties up to 1100hz.
herm
P.S. Anyone who speaks german better than I, please feel free
to translate any pertinant points of that design...
This is all I could dig up on the 18sound 15ND930.
This is coupled with a tweeter crossed pretty low, but
it's better than no curves at all...
Good thing you speak German fluently.
Linky
Well, since I speak just a little german, here's the frequency response
Combined Freq
here is the waterfall
Waterfall
And here is the woofer all by itself:
Woofer only
Not much help answering your question of it's use as a midrange, but
at least you can see it's fairly free of nasties up to 1100hz.
herm
P.S. Anyone who speaks german better than I, please feel free
to translate any pertinant points of that design...
I have four spare JBL 2123J (16 ohm, used) mids if you're interested. They are real good in that range and are very efficient when used as a parallel pairs - They sound fantastic
Email me if if you are interested -
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2123.pdf
Email me if if you are interested -
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2123.pdf
A pair of these 15" Selenium pr side
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-375
And maybe this new BMS coax midtweeter
http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?show=item&usbid=10280&id=5063649
It will rock your metal music loud and hard and take a lot of power on overdrive, as I guess you like it😉
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-375
And maybe this new BMS coax midtweeter
http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?show=item&usbid=10280&id=5063649
It will rock your metal music loud and hard and take a lot of power on overdrive, as I guess you like it😉
tinitus said:
If you go back to original post.
Quote
(I am looking for the best pure midrange (~400hz to 1500~2000hz,)
If I read correctly it says 400 to 1500 upto 2000 if possible.
Therefore the 416 by ALTEC LANSING and produced and manufactured by Great Plains Audio meats the criteria.
Plus for mid range you can't beat ALTEC.
🙂
..............................................
You should read the whole thread, its not that long and not just a matter of a good midrange 😉
Well, I believe Altec/Iconic/GPA are great drivers, but also very expencive, I guess
but a 16" as a "pure" midrange ?? even 800hz would normally be a compromise with a 15"
But its Thadman you will have to convince, not me
Well, I believe Altec/Iconic/GPA are great drivers, but also very expencive, I guess
but a 16" as a "pure" midrange ?? even 800hz would normally be a compromise with a 15"
But its Thadman you will have to convince, not me
Here's the scan of the Ciare 10.64NdMR:
I'm sorry, I have to spend some more time on the scan of the Celestion, as the parts of interest are really unreadable.
Baseballbatboy
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm sorry, I have to spend some more time on the scan of the Celestion, as the parts of interest are really unreadable.
Baseballbatboy
A very similar issue
I have some got recently old ESLs that need repair, for listening to well recorded material.
I’m planning a separate dedicated rock system.
The foundation will be midbass - Altec 15 inchers, which should get me to 400 – 600 Hz. (Under that I’ll likely go a tapped horn). The Altec will start off bass reflex, but if I ever get time, will become horn loaded.
On the top end Aurum Cantus 1’s, which should come down to 1500 – 2000 Hz.
So I need to bridge the gap, which I will likely do open baffle, to cover only about 2 – 2.5 octaves. Though it’s for rock, 105 dB max will do me, though 110 dB would give more headroom.
I’ve accumulated a few drivers – some will be used elsewhere or be sold.
PHL 10” 3451
JBL 10” 2123J
B&C 6.5” 6MD44
PHL 6.5” 1040
Seas 6” Excel mag cone - much lower sensitivity and max dB, but going active, at least the levels can be balanced.
Might a metal cone driver between a paper cone (Altec) and a ribbon give a better transition of materials – better integration?
No 1 priority is transient response.
Anyone comment on these drivers for this purpose?
How hard is it learn to measure & plot decay ?
Thanks
I have some got recently old ESLs that need repair, for listening to well recorded material.
I’m planning a separate dedicated rock system.
The foundation will be midbass - Altec 15 inchers, which should get me to 400 – 600 Hz. (Under that I’ll likely go a tapped horn). The Altec will start off bass reflex, but if I ever get time, will become horn loaded.
On the top end Aurum Cantus 1’s, which should come down to 1500 – 2000 Hz.
So I need to bridge the gap, which I will likely do open baffle, to cover only about 2 – 2.5 octaves. Though it’s for rock, 105 dB max will do me, though 110 dB would give more headroom.
I’ve accumulated a few drivers – some will be used elsewhere or be sold.
PHL 10” 3451
JBL 10” 2123J
B&C 6.5” 6MD44
PHL 6.5” 1040
Seas 6” Excel mag cone - much lower sensitivity and max dB, but going active, at least the levels can be balanced.
Might a metal cone driver between a paper cone (Altec) and a ribbon give a better transition of materials – better integration?
No 1 priority is transient response.
Anyone comment on these drivers for this purpose?
How hard is it learn to measure & plot decay ?
Thanks
Hi Convergence,
Whoa, for rock music yes, but just in my rumpus room, c. 22 * 17 * 12’. (Yes I'll need a sub).
I was asking about mids, but wouldn’t most or all pro cabinets be designed for rather than minimum coloration etc; for maximum loading ie gain, and bass cabs for portability?
If I’m wrong a pro midbass cabinet would be great for simplifying things!
Thanks
Whoa, for rock music yes, but just in my rumpus room, c. 22 * 17 * 12’. (Yes I'll need a sub).
I was asking about mids, but wouldn’t most or all pro cabinets be designed for rather than minimum coloration etc; for maximum loading ie gain, and bass cabs for portability?
If I’m wrong a pro midbass cabinet would be great for simplifying things!
Thanks
Considering the size of your room. I yould recommend Altec model 19.I had no idea of the size room you were talking about.
The components in model 19.
416-8 C or B woofer
511B horn multicell.
900 GPA DRIVER SERIES
xo N1200
As for Altec 817 Bass Horn cabinets .
Here are the pros By Jim Dickenson
It has long been established that horns provide the most efficient
transfer of acoustic energy to the air. In addition, a properly designed horntype
loudspeaker exhibits lower distortion, greater linearity, and more
natural sounding reproduction than do other types of loudspeaker systems.
Across the audible range of human hearing, the advantages of using
high and low frequency horns in sound reproduction are both well
recognized and desired by discerning listeners everywhere. Low frequency
(bass) horns are especially effective in venues where the acoustic energy
must be directed away from hard reflective surfaces, such as walls and
ceilings. They also enable the sound system into which they are
incorporated to reproduce the dynamics of any given program material with
stunning realism.
In order for systems that do not incorporate bass horns in their design
to reach the farthest seats in a large facility with sufficient low frequency
energy, it is necessary to increase their acoustic output. The result is that,
while they may sound fine in the back rows, this type of compromised low
frequency system nearly deafens those who are unfortunate enough to have
to sit near them.
Not so with a properly designed and installed system that uses bass
horns! Bass horns reproduce the program material so accurately and
effortlessly that everyone in the room can hear even the slightest nuances
of the audio without the long term listening fatigue associated with other
types of systems. In fact, the frequency response and dynamic levels
available from a properly designed and installed bass horn system are so
uniform that they literally draw the listeners into the program material,
rather than merely throw it at them. When directivity, accuracy, clarity, and
naturalness of reproduction are required, bass horns are the low frequency
systems of choice for discriminating listeners, designers, installers, and
performers
The components in model 19.
416-8 C or B woofer
511B horn multicell.
900 GPA DRIVER SERIES
xo N1200
As for Altec 817 Bass Horn cabinets .
Here are the pros By Jim Dickenson
It has long been established that horns provide the most efficient
transfer of acoustic energy to the air. In addition, a properly designed horntype
loudspeaker exhibits lower distortion, greater linearity, and more
natural sounding reproduction than do other types of loudspeaker systems.
Across the audible range of human hearing, the advantages of using
high and low frequency horns in sound reproduction are both well
recognized and desired by discerning listeners everywhere. Low frequency
(bass) horns are especially effective in venues where the acoustic energy
must be directed away from hard reflective surfaces, such as walls and
ceilings. They also enable the sound system into which they are
incorporated to reproduce the dynamics of any given program material with
stunning realism.
In order for systems that do not incorporate bass horns in their design
to reach the farthest seats in a large facility with sufficient low frequency
energy, it is necessary to increase their acoustic output. The result is that,
while they may sound fine in the back rows, this type of compromised low
frequency system nearly deafens those who are unfortunate enough to have
to sit near them.
Not so with a properly designed and installed system that uses bass
horns! Bass horns reproduce the program material so accurately and
effortlessly that everyone in the room can hear even the slightest nuances
of the audio without the long term listening fatigue associated with other
types of systems. In fact, the frequency response and dynamic levels
available from a properly designed and installed bass horn system are so
uniform that they literally draw the listeners into the program material,
rather than merely throw it at them. When directivity, accuracy, clarity, and
naturalness of reproduction are required, bass horns are the low frequency
systems of choice for discriminating listeners, designers, installers, and
performers
Attachments
Hi,
The Altecs I just bought are 421-8LF’s.
The model 19 I see is a bass reflex – I could build a BR myself.
My apologies, I got the idea from your post of buying a pro midbass *horn but I forgot to say midbass *horn.
One with a flare about 60 – 90 Hz. What are the good options for that?
Thanks
The Altecs I just bought are 421-8LF’s.
The model 19 I see is a bass reflex – I could build a BR myself.
My apologies, I got the idea from your post of buying a pro midbass *horn but I forgot to say midbass *horn.
One with a flare about 60 – 90 Hz. What are the good options for that?
Thanks
The 421 8lf will fit with Altec Bass Horn cabinet 816-A
FR response inside cabinet 50 to 1000HZ
101 DB 1w/M
distribution 40X 90 degree.
The 816-A is a single driver cabinet.
How many 421 do you have?
................................................................
FR response inside cabinet 50 to 1000HZ
101 DB 1w/M
distribution 40X 90 degree.
The 816-A is a single driver cabinet.
How many 421 do you have?
................................................................
Just two 421s, for a stereo pair.
Do you know what material the 816-A is made of, and if it’s well braced?
I had thought a JBL might be a good option, eg a JBL 4560 but http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/23294/0/ points out that not pro all pro audio is the same quality . . hence my questions re the 816-A
Thanks
Do you know what material the 816-A is made of, and if it’s well braced?
I had thought a JBL might be a good option, eg a JBL 4560 but http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/23294/0/ points out that not pro all pro audio is the same quality . . hence my questions re the 816-A
Thanks
Not all pro is HI FI quality is a better way to put it.
Ever since Woofers started to go with high wattage you sort got
less definition and efficiency. Most of this is due to overhang long excursion voice coils.
In the case of the 421 Altec , This speaker was designed for producing music instead of reproducing it. It was used a lot in the 70's by rock groups because it still had this efficiency and geat detail.
If you want a more efficient speaker the 416 radiator or the 515
bass horn speaker are still the best. They improved them to the point that Altec or GPA does not need to manufacture the 421
anymore.
As for the 816 -A cabinet . You have to download the plans and have them made. They are solid. The 817 double is being used for concert shows in Australia by CPC THe only large Altec venue
Touring equipment in the world.
Their cabinets are reinforced for road handling.
Ever since Woofers started to go with high wattage you sort got
less definition and efficiency. Most of this is due to overhang long excursion voice coils.
In the case of the 421 Altec , This speaker was designed for producing music instead of reproducing it. It was used a lot in the 70's by rock groups because it still had this efficiency and geat detail.
If you want a more efficient speaker the 416 radiator or the 515
bass horn speaker are still the best. They improved them to the point that Altec or GPA does not need to manufacture the 421
anymore.
As for the 816 -A cabinet . You have to download the plans and have them made. They are solid. The 817 double is being used for concert shows in Australia by CPC THe only large Altec venue
Touring equipment in the world.
Their cabinets are reinforced for road handling.
Attachments
if it is only good for >400Hz, it wouldn't be a good midrange, because it'll be incapable of producing two entire octaves of what is considered the midrange.
The best mid speakers on the market are still the Altec 416 and 515. They don't call these speakers The voice of the Thater for nothing.
I've heard and compared in free air JBL, EV, Tanoy, and Altec.
Altec has this mid range Voice that the others don't have.
It's the way the speaker is designed. Put your teories aside for a moment and listen.
I've worked for many years with all 3 companies. And as mid range is concerned Altec beats them all. The reason is simple these speakers were designed to let sound go through the
perforated screen in the theatre.In those days you had 70mm
projection with magnetic tracks 6 channels 80 DB of dynamic range. I'm not talking of the A-7 but the A-4 and the A-2.
Today Digital 35mm is 120 DB. Analogue Dolby is less.
..............................................................................
I've heard and compared in free air JBL, EV, Tanoy, and Altec.
Altec has this mid range Voice that the others don't have.
It's the way the speaker is designed. Put your teories aside for a moment and listen.
I've worked for many years with all 3 companies. And as mid range is concerned Altec beats them all. The reason is simple these speakers were designed to let sound go through the
perforated screen in the theatre.In those days you had 70mm
projection with magnetic tracks 6 channels 80 DB of dynamic range. I'm not talking of the A-7 but the A-4 and the A-2.
Today Digital 35mm is 120 DB. Analogue Dolby is less.
..............................................................................
thadman said:
Steve Schell's ,
field coil compression drivers,
may be the finest USA made mid...
http://www.audiofederation.com/blog/archives/46
Audio Federation - » Blog Archive » The Cogent True-to-life Horn Speakers at CES 2006 - High-end Audio Blog
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
2444
Convergence,
Altec 416 and 515 may not be so good as far up as 1500~2000 Hz . . but I could use a mid above
Do you know the approx flare Hz on the 816 –A?
If I had the money & time to implemnt, Steve Schell's field coil compression drivers what be a great option.
(Back to the thread)
Magnetar
Did you ever compare the JBL 2123 with the PHL 3451?
Open baffle?
Thanks
Altec 416 and 515 may not be so good as far up as 1500~2000 Hz . . but I could use a mid above
Do you know the approx flare Hz on the 816 –A?
If I had the money & time to implemnt, Steve Schell's field coil compression drivers what be a great option.
(Back to the thread)
Magnetar
Did you ever compare the JBL 2123 with the PHL 3451?
Open baffle?
Thanks
Interestingly enough, I have been going through a NIN phase, listening to their new album Year Zero. My setup has good mid-range and excellent bass, since I am running some Klipsch speakers with a 1" tweeter and a 8" woofer plus a 10" passive radiator.
For instance, the opening part of "The Great Destroyer" is all secluded to the main speakers and sounds awesome. I'm sure that your speakers will be much better quality-wise, just make sure that you get the highest quality of recordings you can.
Bass, on the other hand, is my system's strength. Two 18"ers fed 350 watts each from a Crest amp. Let's just say that I can make furniture move, AND get tons of detail. Infinite baffle subs are just amazing! 😎
-WL
For instance, the opening part of "The Great Destroyer" is all secluded to the main speakers and sounds awesome. I'm sure that your speakers will be much better quality-wise, just make sure that you get the highest quality of recordings you can.
Bass, on the other hand, is my system's strength. Two 18"ers fed 350 watts each from a Crest amp. Let's just say that I can make furniture move, AND get tons of detail. Infinite baffle subs are just amazing! 😎
-WL
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