The folks that are MOST impressed by the AN15 are the 'Common Sense Audio' people themselves: "our Audio Nirvana speakers are also better than the world's best multi-driver speakers"
Hi,
When will the penny drop ? The AN15 might be fine as
stereo speakers but is utterly useless as organ speakers.
Horses for courses, and your banking on the wrong horse.
rgds, sreten.
When will the penny drop ? The AN15 might be fine as
stereo speakers but is utterly useless as organ speakers.
Horses for courses, and your banking on the wrong horse.
rgds, sreten.
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sreten, the penny may not drop! I am seeking advice only. As I depend on my crops for discretionary spending, I may not start anything until February or March. Evan that depends on what I eventually decide will work best!
Since the majority here don't seem to like the ANs, I'm still looking for something to work. My colleagues on the virtual organ forum seem to be sold (by majority) on powered, near field monitors, primarily Behringer 2031s and 3031s. They like to use them in mostly in banks of 6 or 8 pairs with subwoofer(s). I don't care for them, nor can I afford this arrangement.
Oh, and by the way, the forums where I found favorable opinions on the AN15s were this one and one other audio forum which I won't name (because I don't know if it's allowed). Not the Common Sense/Audio Nirvana website! I can't tell if the other forum posts are "sock puppets" from AN, but I know better than to believe reviews posted on the sellers website, thank you!
~Scott
Since the majority here don't seem to like the ANs, I'm still looking for something to work. My colleagues on the virtual organ forum seem to be sold (by majority) on powered, near field monitors, primarily Behringer 2031s and 3031s. They like to use them in mostly in banks of 6 or 8 pairs with subwoofer(s). I don't care for them, nor can I afford this arrangement.
Oh, and by the way, the forums where I found favorable opinions on the AN15s were this one and one other audio forum which I won't name (because I don't know if it's allowed). Not the Common Sense/Audio Nirvana website! I can't tell if the other forum posts are "sock puppets" from AN, but I know better than to believe reviews posted on the sellers website, thank you!
~Scott
Maybe an array of Vifa PC9s will work for organ music? Just kidding.
Reading thru this thread I feel the AN 15" is too expensive an avenue to take. I think that driver is best suited in a dedicated listening room with a dedicated listening spot. Larger rooms with lots of people might be better served by more typical pro sound options with horn tweeters spraying treble, high output mid-woofers creating enough volume for everyone and large thumping woofers in big boxes to reach the depths you desire.
The AN 15 is probably more an audiophiles aquired taste than a utilitarian driver for large venues.
Reading thru this thread I feel the AN 15" is too expensive an avenue to take. I think that driver is best suited in a dedicated listening room with a dedicated listening spot. Larger rooms with lots of people might be better served by more typical pro sound options with horn tweeters spraying treble, high output mid-woofers creating enough volume for everyone and large thumping woofers in big boxes to reach the depths you desire.
The AN 15 is probably more an audiophiles aquired taste than a utilitarian driver for large venues.
Sorry if you were mislead Godzilla, but it's just me and my wife out here in the sticks! No "lots of people" anywhere. And the area is just 3 adjoining rooms, 12 feet wide and about 27 feet long, total. Huge fan of your movies, by the way!
My 'playing desk' is set at the far end, with the speakers, which are pointed to the sides now. It somewhat softens the effect on my ears when I play.
~Scott
My 'playing desk' is set at the far end, with the speakers, which are pointed to the sides now. It somewhat softens the effect on my ears when I play.
~Scott
understanding all aspects of the application are critical to making efficacious suggestions:
- venue (room / auditorium / audience size/acoustic properties)
- program material / playing levels
- enclosure size constraints
- available power / speaker required sensitivity
Even in a more modest domestic venue than might have been in some of our flights of fancy, I still think a single full-range driver of any capability might still be over-taxed attempting to regularly dig into the bottom ranks, and that pro PA gear is probably your best bet for durability.
- venue (room / auditorium / audience size/acoustic properties)
- program material / playing levels
- enclosure size constraints
- available power / speaker required sensitivity
Even in a more modest domestic venue than might have been in some of our flights of fancy, I still think a single full-range driver of any capability might still be over-taxed attempting to regularly dig into the bottom ranks, and that pro PA gear is probably your best bet for durability.
I am still looking at everything. My primary goal is to avoid crossovers between, say, m/l 150Hz to 6 or 7 kHz. I was wondering about something like a mid-woofer, like Silver Flute or something, that can cover to that upper limit, and then something like a dipole AMT to cap off the top end, and of course, the sub down below.
Does that sound any better to anyone?
(Bracing for impact!)
~Scott
Does that sound any better to anyone?
(Bracing for impact!)
~Scott
Hi,
Going for a supposed goal (a high x/o point) that no commercial
manufacturer embraces tells you its a pretty pointless goal.
It will have more drawbacks than any supposed advantage.
TBH I'm not interested in debating this for 8 or 9 months.
You have loads of time to do your own research.
rgds, sreten.
Going for a supposed goal (a high x/o point) that no commercial
manufacturer embraces tells you its a pretty pointless goal.
It will have more drawbacks than any supposed advantage.
TBH I'm not interested in debating this for 8 or 9 months.
You have loads of time to do your own research.
rgds, sreten.
You might want to take a look at the Pi series - particularly the 4 or 8?
Pi Speakers - Product Line and Driver Complements
For those bottom registers you want a system capable surviving below 20Hz, and a pair of separate subs with 12" or larger drivers supporting a high efficiency 2-way with compression driver mid-tweeter could be your best bet.
I've built a couple of systems with the Heil AMTs - one was rebuild of AMT1 into a 3-way with Eminence 6" midrange and the factory woofer/ PR. While IMHO the AMT driver is still one of the better mid-tweeters around, I think it's not at all practical for your intended application.
Pi Speakers - Product Line and Driver Complements
For those bottom registers you want a system capable surviving below 20Hz, and a pair of separate subs with 12" or larger drivers supporting a high efficiency 2-way with compression driver mid-tweeter could be your best bet.
I've built a couple of systems with the Heil AMTs - one was rebuild of AMT1 into a 3-way with Eminence 6" midrange and the factory woofer/ PR. While IMHO the AMT driver is still one of the better mid-tweeters around, I think it's not at all practical for your intended application.
Thanks for your input Chris. I was impressed by the smooth high range the AMTs show on charts, why do you feel they would be impractical?
~Scott
~Scott
>>> Going for a supposed goal (a high x/o point) that no commercial manufacturer embraces tells you its a pretty pointless goal.
Sreten, this may be my favorite comment of yours on the full range driver forum.
Sreten, this may be my favorite comment of yours on the full range driver forum.
Well, I guess other than the price (currently $319 USD each before shipping and taxes, direct from ESS Labs) and the dipole radiation pattern that might not be suitable depending on intended location, there may not be any reason not to use them - but I think a compression driver and controlled directivity horn might be a better bet.
Don't get me wrong about the AMT - it's a stellar driver in the right application.
I was looking @ Parts Express that has some from 20 bucks. I appreciate your input on the dipole bit though. Having not heard them personally, I just don't know this kind of stuff, that's why I ask!
~Scott
~Scott
At $20 ea, probably this little guy - a cute little unit suitable for a small 2-way
Since Ocsar's patent expired, there's been lots of folks jumping on this bandwagon, from the likes of Dayton to Mudorf, Beyma, and no doubt others.
The only non ESS AMT I've heard was the larger Dayton AMT PRO4
Not a bad performer, but at approx $150 ea, not in the same class as the Great Heil
Both the Daytons are monopoles
All of which as I said before is probably moot to the application under discussion .
Now, the Beyma TPL-200H and 12BR70 12" woofer, that could make for a stunning system, but now you're at just under $800 per side, before taxes and shipping, for just the drivers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Since Ocsar's patent expired, there's been lots of folks jumping on this bandwagon, from the likes of Dayton to Mudorf, Beyma, and no doubt others.
The only non ESS AMT I've heard was the larger Dayton AMT PRO4
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Not a bad performer, but at approx $150 ea, not in the same class as the Great Heil
Both the Daytons are monopoles
All of which as I said before is probably moot to the application under discussion .
Now, the Beyma TPL-200H and 12BR70 12" woofer, that could make for a stunning system, but now you're at just under $800 per side, before taxes and shipping, for just the drivers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I hadn't paid attention that this was an organ application. I wouldn't spend the money on the AN 15" for that - it's worth it for hi-fi but I'm not sure it would be justified for an organ unless it was designed to take advantage of the fidelity. I thought organs used relatively simple drivers - there's always a few old ones turning up on eBay.
Many of the organ manufacturers provided speakers along the Bose philosophy, i.e., very little technology with as much fanfare and mark-up as possible.
Organ pipes, especially soft flutes, have a remarkable amount of overtone structure that requires careful attention to reproduce. At the other end of the scale are the loud reeds like the French Trompettes, whose harmonic detail is anything but subtle! Many colleagues utilize separate groups of speakers to reproduce separate stops, or groups of stops, to isolate these timbres. Hauptwerk (the operating system) allows for (I believe) up to 130 separate channels, so some individuals have gone so far as to utilize a separate speaker per stop, thus allowing all the voices to mix in the air as pipes would!
I, myself, would have to win the lottery to afford such a system, and the room to put it in. But the point is, don't knock hi-fidelity, just because it's for an organ! When we say it's pretty, we don't just mean pretty loud!
~Scott
Organ pipes, especially soft flutes, have a remarkable amount of overtone structure that requires careful attention to reproduce. At the other end of the scale are the loud reeds like the French Trompettes, whose harmonic detail is anything but subtle! Many colleagues utilize separate groups of speakers to reproduce separate stops, or groups of stops, to isolate these timbres. Hauptwerk (the operating system) allows for (I believe) up to 130 separate channels, so some individuals have gone so far as to utilize a separate speaker per stop, thus allowing all the voices to mix in the air as pipes would!
I, myself, would have to win the lottery to afford such a system, and the room to put it in. But the point is, don't knock hi-fidelity, just because it's for an organ! When we say it's pretty, we don't just mean pretty loud!
~Scott
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