The 8" version of the spiral horns had a totally smooth expansion. Smooth walls, no corners or folds. Just bent plywood. I used that building method myself for a pair of frontloaded basshorns and their performance was fantastic. Very punchy and dynamic, very clean. The current fashion of Olson/Nagaoka type manifold horns have good technical reasoning behind them (and ultimately what I would recommend to someone who wants to build a good design and have reliable performance), playing with these spiral/bent ply principles can be interesting as well. One would expect perhaps too much midrange entering the horn and being amplified, but at the time it was not that apparent in the 8" version. It had a decent fairly flat midrange plateau and gently rolling off treble and bass. Really came to life with suitable DSP.
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Hi Bigun!
Things actually ended up going in a different direction thanks to a friend I had previously made on Audio Asylum. I had every intention of having Woden Design's Vulcan horns built, but then I saw an Ad on US Audio Mart for a pair of Beauhorn Virtuoso front & back-loaded horns loaded with Lowther DX4 drivers for a good bit more than I could afford, especially with the added price of shipping them from WI to FL. But for some reason, I decided to write the fellow selling the Beauhorns and told him how much I envied the fellow that would be purchasing these awesome speakers from him and I hoped he made a quick sale. Then, much to my surprise, I received a return email from the seller that opened with the question, "Tom is this you?" Well, emails went back and forth between the seller, who I won't name unless he wants to out himself, and myself, until eventually he made the speakers available to me at a price I could afford and I just had to buy them!
When the Beauhorn Virtuoso loaded with Lowther DX4 drivers finally arrived I was extremely impressed with what I heard UNTIL another friend loaned me a pair of 15 ohm, copper voice-coil, Lowther PM5A drivers with alnico magnets to try in place of the DX4 drivers I had been using. Now to attempt to describe the level of sonic improvement the Lowther PM5A drivers made in the Beauhorn Virtuoso horns over their DX4 drivers would take paragraphs to describe accurately. Suffice it to say the PM5A drivers made an extreme level of improvement ---{the PM5A drivers throw the widest, deepest soundstage I've ever heard with layers and layers of depth & inner detail within it}--- in every area except in ultimate treble extension. But, heck isn't that what super-tweeters are for? I could live with how they sound for now, but I know I would need a super-tweeter to completely enjoy what I'm listening to and not feeling that something is missing! I'm presently talking with someone about building me a very special pair of super-tweeters! Plus after speaking with the owner of the PM5A drivers I'm now using, he told me using silver voice-coils in place of the copper ones he has would provide that treble extension I require.
To make a very long story as short as I possibly can for you Bigun. I am actually very seriously considering still building the Vulcan horns ---{with a removable front panel that will screw down using the holes where the drivers would normally mount. That way I can try various different drivers without marring the front face of the Vulcan horns}--- Then I can compare them against the Beauhorn Virtuoso horns and then sell the loser of the speaker shoot-out! Thanks for inquiring about what happened and what I'm presently doing...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
Hi Retsel! In order to get the PM5A drivers with their much larger alnico magnets to fit, holes had to be cut in the real styrofoam. When reinstalling the DX4 drivers I taped a layer of cardboard over the holes! But the DX4 drivers were just no match for the PM5A drivers. I'm so impressed I'm ordering a pair of 15 ohm, silver voice-coil, PM5A drivers to replace the DX4 drivers and with Lowthers very generous trade-in program the PM5A drivers will only cost me $1550 shipped to my door...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
About the Lowthers
Purchasing the 15 ohm Lowthers is a smart move. The 15 ohm Lowthers have 3 mm of x-max compared to 1 mm for the 8 ohm variety. Since you have backhorns, you will need every mm of xmax that you can get. I would still high pass them, though, at whatever frequency that makes sense with your speakers. With my Hedlund Horns, I high passed them at 80 hz. Also, the 15 ohm drivers don't seem to have the spike at 2khz like the 8 ohm drivers do, at least the DX4s don't.
By the way, if the DX4s you compared the PM5s with were only 8 ohm drivers, some of the difference you noticed between the two drivers may be due to x-max, and not the magnet.
What phase plugs are you getting? I think that Lowther offers the light bulb phase plugs if you have front horns. According to Jon VerHalen, the light bulb phase plugs work best in front horns, and I believe that all drivers come standard with the holey doorknob diffusers. My DX4s in conical front horns sound pretty good with the holey doorknob diffusers. But your horns are different than mine, and your taste in the soundstaging may be different than mine. I suggest that you do your own comparisons between different phase plugs.
Retsel
Purchasing the 15 ohm Lowthers is a smart move. The 15 ohm Lowthers have 3 mm of x-max compared to 1 mm for the 8 ohm variety. Since you have backhorns, you will need every mm of xmax that you can get. I would still high pass them, though, at whatever frequency that makes sense with your speakers. With my Hedlund Horns, I high passed them at 80 hz. Also, the 15 ohm drivers don't seem to have the spike at 2khz like the 8 ohm drivers do, at least the DX4s don't.
By the way, if the DX4s you compared the PM5s with were only 8 ohm drivers, some of the difference you noticed between the two drivers may be due to x-max, and not the magnet.
What phase plugs are you getting? I think that Lowther offers the light bulb phase plugs if you have front horns. According to Jon VerHalen, the light bulb phase plugs work best in front horns, and I believe that all drivers come standard with the holey doorknob diffusers. My DX4s in conical front horns sound pretty good with the holey doorknob diffusers. But your horns are different than mine, and your taste in the soundstaging may be different than mine. I suggest that you do your own comparisons between different phase plugs.
Retsel
Hi Retsel,
To be honest I'm not sure if the DX4 is 8 or 15 ohm and you're 100% correct about there being no 2kHz spike! I'm probably going to high-pass at 80Hz just like you do someday in the future with a pair of tapped horns. As far as the phase plugs are concerned the speakers and phase plugs I'm using look just like the ones here do:
Glow in the Dark Audio - Beauhorn Virtuoso lowther DX4 Horns
I hope this answers your questions and thanks for your input...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
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Sorry I didn't update sooner Bigun! I actually purchased the 15 ohm, copper voice-coil, Lowther drivers with Ticonal magnets from my friend, i.e., Jon Ver Halen, who was allowing me to try them in place of the Lowther DX4 drivers that came with the Beauhorn Virtuoso speakers! I'm very happy with the drivers as they are, now!
You see, after I replaced my previous and very good diy silver ICs I was using with Atelier Rullit ICs from Germany and the previous diy speaker wires I was using with Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature speaker wires from Idaho, USA, everything opened up and I no longer felt the need of either super-tweeters or sub-woofers! I should also mention I now use a Sablon Gran Corona, Hi-Diamond 3, and Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature power cords, 3 PS Audio Noise Harvesters, Gershman Acoustics LVC 40 Magnetic Isolators, a diy Power Conditioner using all Mapleshade parts & wire, tube dampeners and various other tweaks which also went a long way towards improving the sound quality.
Now the soundstage is extremely wide and deep. I have all the high-frequency extension I could ever need and except for the extreme lows that require a sub-woofer I now have all the low-end frequency extension I could ever need as well. And their 105 dB sensitivity makes for some really amazing dynamics and transient response. I'm so happy with what I'm hearing ---it would require a very long post to describe their improved harmonics, tone quality, pitch, inner-detail, decay etc,--- that any previous thoughts of building the Vulcans have completely disappeared for the foreseeable future. I'd include photos, but no longer remember how to...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
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Hi Bigun, About 1 month ago I was able to pick up a used pair of $3.2K NBS Professional ICs for $700 that literally transformed my system. I have never, ever heard a wire make this level of improvement before. Truth-be-told if any of my friends called up and told me their audio system was not significantly improved, but literally transformed by a pair of ICs, I would have been nice on the phone, telling them how happy I was for them and when the phone call ended my first thought would have been "Yeah, right, the wires transformed your system."
But a couple of friends had their curiosity peaked and have visited to see what really happened and they both agreed, the wires did transform the sound of my audio system and it was all for the better! In fact, previously I found my Prog-rock music hard to listen to, but now the system plays Prog-rock as well as all my jazz music. I have never been happier with any other system I've owned. I'm at the point where I do NOT want to change anything. So yeah, I am in Audio Nirvana like I've never been before...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
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yeah, right, the wires transformed your system
glad to hear those Lowthers are doing the trick for you. And no cone treatments required?
Bigun, I'm not surprised at how others react when I tell them a wire transformed the sound of my audio system. But it seems that the NBS wire and a "liquid metal" IC that I'm using 1/2 of as a digital wire, together are having a gestalt-type of effect in the system. If you're visiting Orlando, FL. get in touch with me and I'll arrange a listening session for you of my audio system that consists of a YBA Genesis CD4 CD player used only as a transport, a Musical Paradise MP-D2 tubed DAC, a 135lb, 40W/ch, Mastersound Reference 845, integrated SET amp and a nice pair of upgraded ---I removed the Lowther DX4 drivers & replaced them with a pair of Lowther PM5A drivers with Ticonal* magnets. I also added a pair of nice, fairly high-sensitivity, ribbon super tweeters --- Beauhorn Virtuoso speakers! I think you might actually like what you hear...
Thetubeguy1954
Thanks! Interesting boutique cable and not surprised at all that it literally 'transformed' since it has an IC that's got a signal processor to modify the signal based on somebody's idea of a pleasing EQ or maybe just a digital autoformer; be interesting to map it or at least measure/compare them in room with 14 ga solid strand pulled out of Romex, which 'pound for pound' is the best wire available to see how it modifies the speaker's response.
For this kind of investment though, one can buy a lot of dbx or similar audio/room correction, etc., system to dial in/'transform' the entire system, not just EQ the speakers plus store different 'maps' for different folks [if applicable], musical genres, etc., and odds are it will perform even better, unless of course one prefers the cable's built in euphonic [to some] distortion, but it's a crap shoot as to whether or how much it will please Vs pretty much a guaranteed one.
GM
For this kind of investment though, one can buy a lot of dbx or similar audio/room correction, etc., system to dial in/'transform' the entire system, not just EQ the speakers plus store different 'maps' for different folks [if applicable], musical genres, etc., and odds are it will perform even better, unless of course one prefers the cable's built in euphonic [to some] distortion, but it's a crap shoot as to whether or how much it will please Vs pretty much a guaranteed one.
GM
Hi GM! Good to hear from you again. If what you're saying is true about Romex being "pound for pound" the best wire available ---I should mention I've already proven to many that both the Belden 9497 & 8412 "giant-killers" that Shindo and his disciples all raved about are not worth the little they cost--- I'd love to try two pairs of what you'd consider being a "properly designed" and "properly built" pair of Romex ICs in my system in place of the two wires I previously mentioned I use! F.Y.I. I'd be willing to remove both the NBS and Teo GC Ultra "liquid metal" wires from my system in a heartbeat if and when someone can prove to me, that a cheaper wire that sounds better in my audio system is available.
You'd probably be surprised to learn I have absolutely no vested interest in having expensive wire in my system. In fact, a few years back now, before I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, my system was wired with completely with Stealth Audio wire. The wires were before the was Dream, Dream V10, Dream V12, etc., back then they were all simply Dream wires! The ones I used included $10 K Sakra ICs, $10 K Dream Speaker wires and an either a $3 K or $4 K Dream power cord, I honestly don't remember what the power cord sold for. I had not one single problem selling any & all ll those wires when it came time to do so ---I did contact Serguei Timachev before selling the wires to let him know I needed to raise $$$$ for medical bills and I asked if he wanted to buy them back before I sold them--- I can tell you that since then I have not and will not, invest that type of cash in wires again. Not because I didn't find those wires amazing, but because I'm working more on acoustic isolation of components first these days! These NBS are handmade, Litz construction, multi-gauge high-purity copper, precise windings, silvered shielding, and yes a passive-frequency inductance network that seems to bother you.
In a review by Jack English in Stereophile Magazine when Jack attempted to challenge the applicability of the NBS cables in different systems ---Jack obtained the same sort of results I did when trying the NBS ICs in various different audio systems of friends, who use Class D amps, Pass XA25 solid-state amp and Counterpoint SA-20 Hybrid amp--- and Jack tested them using three preamps (CAT SL-1 Signature, Melos 333 Gold, MFA MC-Reference), three amps (Audio Research Classic I 150's, Jadis Defy 7, Krell KSA-100S) and six sets of speakers (ProAc Response Fours and Three Signatures, Martin-Logan II Zs, Merlin Excalibur IIs, Clearfield Metropolitans, Swan Cygnuses). Jack ultimately gave up his quest to find something to criticize. There was nothing he could find wrong with the NBS Signatures ---the NBS Signatures are what a friend uses and they're 2 levels below my NBS Professional ICs--- Jack concluded exactly what I, and so far everyone else who's heard these wonderful ICs in my system, which is the NBS's outperformed every other IC I have tried in my system!
NBS AUDIO CABLES
Personally, I wish you well with your "giant-killing" Romex wire, ICs, and speaker wires, I assume? If this works well in your system and sounds the best to you, then you're making out like a bandit! I only wished I was that lucky. I don't mean to sound crass at all GM, but I cannot tell you how many times I've heard about Romex, Belden and other "giant-killing" ICs and speaker wires that later have been sent to me to try. But when installed them my system to no good effect, I then brought them to other friends homes who all concluded what I did, i.e., "Why would anyone want these in their audio system?" and please remember all these systems sound somewhat different and all are different. They're running the gambit from an SET integrated amp w/105dB sensitive Beauhorn Virtuosos, to Copland preamp & Pass XA25 amp w/92dB Reference 3a Taksim, to a Modwright LS 36.5 DM preamp & a pair of Class D monoblocks w/90dB Thiel CS3.7 They say 90 dB sensitivity but with a power rating of 100–600W they're a very difficult speaker to drive---I don't know their name but supposedly they are the latest, greatest, but who knows. I don't because I know nothing about Class D--- and we all basically heard the same thing with the NBS ICs. I couldn't possibly imagine the built-in equalizer you're speaking of working exactly the same to the same effect in such different types of audio systems. Do you really believe it would?
Thetubeguy1954
Tom, you really don't need to get so defensive about your choices.
-Nobody mentioned 'giant killing'
-Nobody said anything other than noting that 14ga Romex can be reasonably described as being 'pound for pound the best wire available'. That does not mean it is 'the best', it means that you have to spend disproportionately more to do better.
-I seem to see the words 'not surprised at all that it literally "transformed"...' with given notes as to the reason, so nobody is doubting your report on the sonic change in your system, or criticising it either. You like what you like and do what best suits your particular requirements.
For the sake of interest, as I recall, there was a long-term investigation (as in, over a decade) done in US industry on accurate signal transfer. I can't recall the details of length & BW covered, but if fallible memory serves, 14ga Romex came out near (albeit not at) the top, though topped the easily available options for lowest losses. I could be wrong, but I think something that was flash-plated with silver headed the list. This is assuming maximum efficiency of signal transfer (and that voltage drop was sufficiently low for a given run). If you're using the wire to voice / match the system through its electrical properties &c. then naturally the world is your oyster with geometry, conductor material & a bunch of other factors thrown in. No shame in that; as noted, you're adjusting based on your particular requirements.
-Nobody mentioned 'giant killing'
-Nobody said anything other than noting that 14ga Romex can be reasonably described as being 'pound for pound the best wire available'. That does not mean it is 'the best', it means that you have to spend disproportionately more to do better.
-I seem to see the words 'not surprised at all that it literally "transformed"...' with given notes as to the reason, so nobody is doubting your report on the sonic change in your system, or criticising it either. You like what you like and do what best suits your particular requirements.
For the sake of interest, as I recall, there was a long-term investigation (as in, over a decade) done in US industry on accurate signal transfer. I can't recall the details of length & BW covered, but if fallible memory serves, 14ga Romex came out near (albeit not at) the top, though topped the easily available options for lowest losses. I could be wrong, but I think something that was flash-plated with silver headed the list. This is assuming maximum efficiency of signal transfer (and that voltage drop was sufficiently low for a given run). If you're using the wire to voice / match the system through its electrical properties &c. then naturally the world is your oyster with geometry, conductor material & a bunch of other factors thrown in. No shame in that; as noted, you're adjusting based on your particular requirements.
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