Yes, strange kind of fellow Dr. Lindgren is... and Mr. Dlugos too!
p.s. One Mr. ChrisB is a glutton for punishment when it comes to building stuff that Scott and Dave think up...
Judging by Tom's description here & in our emails, they should end up a very pretty pair of speakers indeed. Not small admittedly, but I always did have an affinity with the brontosaurus. Dave & Chris's mod should be a useful tweak also. Although since Tom was happy with his old Sachikos, that was in fact what I recommended he build. Vulcan is technically the superior performer, but it does have a different signature / character because of that, and that's where we move into matters of personal preference and circumstances. Having seen shots of Tom's room, they should do well though.
Not small admittedly, but I always did have an affinity with the brontosaurus. Dave & Chris's mod should be a useful tweak also. Although since Tom was happy with his old Sachikos, that was in fact what I recommended he build. Vulcan is technically the superior performer, but it does have a different signature / character because of that, and that's where we move into matters of personal preference and circumstances. Having seen shots of Tom's room, they should do well though.I get the impression that these Double back loaded horns have a small mouth area.
The top mouth is effectively operating into open air, whereas the bottom mouth is coupled quite effectively to the floor giving a mixed 4Pi and 2Pi loading.
Is this effectively a truncated horn?
What will that do to the LF response?
The top mouth is effectively operating into open air, whereas the bottom mouth is coupled quite effectively to the floor giving a mixed 4Pi and 2Pi loading.
Is this effectively a truncated horn?
What will that do to the LF response?
Look forward to the updates Tom. A big BLH from Woden Design sounds exciting.
Thanks Zman! I cannot tell you how excited I am about having a pair of Scott's Woden Audio Vulcan's custom built for me. The Sachikos were so good I used them from when they first arrived in July 2008 up until I sold them last week! Eight years is the longest I've ever kept and used any speakers in my entire life as an audiophile. And truth be told, if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have sold the Sachikos at all!
So IMHO upgrading from the Sachikos ---{I must admit the one and only thing I never liked about the Sachikos was looking at those two large mouths on their face, one near the ceiling and one near the floor}--- to Scott's all-out assault on double-back-loaded horns designed for Fostex's FE206EN, FE206ES-R or Dayton's PS220-8 single, full-range drivers, is going to be the best thing that ever happened to me and my audio system.
I cannot wait to share what happens with everyone here...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Yes, strange kind of fellow Dr. Lindgren is... and Mr. Dlugos too!
p.s. One Mr. ChrisB is a glutton for punishment when it comes to building stuff that Scott and Dave think up...
Zman I can honestly tell you that if ChrisB is building stuff that Scott and Dave design, it's no punishment ---{as I realize you know}---
But, instead it would either be an exciting journey into some new improvements Scott and Dave have made in one of their previous designs or else it's a wonderful advancement into a new area they've discovered, when implemented, will make a wonderful sonic improvement to that person's audio system!Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Judging by Tom's description here & in our emails, they should end up a very pretty pair of speakers indeed.
Hi Scott!
Thanks for the kind words about my chosen final look for your Woden Audio Vulcans I also happen to think they'll look pretty darn nice when they're done ---even better looking than the Rosewood Sachikos I previously had built by Jeff Carder. As far as how the Vulcans will perform. In the end I believe I'll have at least 95% of the sonic presentation I loved so much with the Sachikos. I believe that because I think most of the sonic presentation is a result of the direct sound coming from the chosen single full-range driver being used in the DBLH cabinets. However I expect to have even better bass and mid-bass in the Vulcans from what I believe is a superior DBLH design. A BIG plus for me is not having to look at the two large openings on the speakers face anymore. All-in-all I sincerely believe I'll end up with the last and best sounding pair of speakers I've ever owned!
One last thing for those who'd to see what my dedicated audio room looks like. This is a link to a photo showing when the Sachikos were set-up in the audio room. Where the Sachikos are positioned in this photo is where the Vulcans will also start at. Of course the Vulcans will be slowly moved around until I find the optimum placement spot for them. Here's the link to the photo of my audio room: My Audio Room
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Hi Zilla! I agree with your assessment of my Vulcans final look completely! I believe when they're finished, they'll be something to behold. Thankfully I have a friend that's a master wood refinisher. He works in the homes of hot-shot Florida millionaires when they want their antiques or their expensive wooden furniture fixed after the finish has been damaged in some way or another. My friend is so good at what he does, people are unable to tell where the finish was damaged after he's fixed it. So for my friend just having to paint my Vulcans in a shiny black finish will be simple as pie! Now add a piece of Walnut Burl veneer down the entire front face and WHOOOOO--WEEEEEEE that will be one beautiful pair of speakers.
I'm with you concerning the Vulcan's lack of opening on their front face. Personally I NEVER liked having to look at the openings on top and bottom of the front face on the Sachikos. Like you said, some might like seeing those two openings, but I just didn't. Thankfully the Sachikos sounded so darn wonderful it made it a lot easier to bear looking at. But the Vulcans eliminating the opening on their front face solved that issue completely for me!
Concerning rolling drivers there's only 3 I'm considering:
- Fostex FE206ES-R
- Dayton PS220-8
- Sonido SFR200a
I wished I could afford a pair of the Ether 7.1.12 drivers. But at just under $2.7K sans shipping & insurance. They're out of reach for the moment. Ether 7.1.12 drivers I might even try one of the Tang-Band drivers if my three main choices don't cut it sonically. However I'm positive either the Fostex or Dayton will be the Cat's meow in the Vulcans once my friend treats the cones with his 7-step, proprietary cone treatment! I want to say "Thanks" to everyone for their advice, support, well-wishes etc. You all have made what started as a terrible blunder into a positive step towards building speakers that will sound somewhat similar ---{due to the direct radiation of the front drivers}--- and yet be a step-up sonically at the same time. What more could I ask for except; "Are they done yet? " The hardest part for me now will be having to wait for my friend to have spare time between jobs to work on my speakers....
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Termini rather than mouth. Which in particular, and compared to what? If you're saying that sans room boundary loading they're not impedance matched down to the 1/4 wave cutoff frequency, then of course they aren't, and nobody ever pretended otherwise. We are all of us are constrained by the laws of physics.
For the free (forward-firing) ones on the FH site, mostly correct, albeit somewhat dependent upon the height of the ceiling. For a typical 8ft UK ceiling for example, the upper terminus does pick up some assistance, albeit less than the lower, naturally. The main objective of such designs is to achieve a relatively large total terminus area compared to shorter enclosures of the same footprint and basic configuration. They do offer some other interesting characteristics that some people like, and partly fall into the subjective catagory. As may be expected, the creation of the 'soundstage' (I don't like the term, but it suffices) is somewhat different -most people seem to find an increase in the height and depth perception, as might be expected given the configuration. Whether that is thought 'real' or partially a contrivance (although as all home audio is technically a contrivance, we're in the realms of how long is a piece of string) is a matter for the individual. We all react and percieve things differently, so I leave people to make their own minds up. What I can say is that while they are not to all tastes, the various designs on the FH site have proved quite popular over the last decade or so, and the small number of people who have built enclosures from my Woden site have all liked them to date, which is the important thing as far as I'm concerned. If you haven't heard a back-horn using one of these configurations, it's worth it, if only for the sake of interest
Depends which you're talking about. There are quite a few. The ones on the FH site, yes, obviously.
As above: that depends which you're talking about. For the FH-site designs, they do not have a perfectly flat response, although since < c. 300Hz the room dominates system response for all speakers (notwithstanding heavily EQ'd nearfield line arrays with large amounts of DSP, which have their own issues like all loudspeakers) they've plenty of company on that score, and better off than most shorter back-horn designs of the same configuration & footprint. I can live with that. That was the main object behind them. For my Woden site models, which are specifically intended for boundary loading -the attached. They are impedance matched down to a much lower frequency -how much lower depending on the specific positioning &c. Under optimal conditions, almost down to the 1/4 wave cutoff frequency.
Obviously this is a single example under a single set of conditions & should not be taken as anything more than that.
Attachments
Last edited:
They're relatively flexible on that front, providing the drivers have a Vas, Q & F0 reasonably close to the baseline unit. Advantages of a large cabinet. You usually have a bit more room for manoeuvre. Big changes (more than, say, about a 10% shift) & you're on your own though.
Of the units Tom mentions, the 206ES-R is very close to the design unit, so will go straight in without major alignment changes. The PS220 has a higher Vas than the design unit & double the Q, so it will not conform to the original alignment. Under some conditions, that may be beneficial, but YMMV on that one: circumstance dependent. The Sonido falls somewhere between the two, the moderate Vas compensating for the higher Q and the move from the design alignment isn't vast -it still behaves in a way that's recognisable if you put the theoretical plots side-by-side.
Last edited:
Just read this thread, since it was an older thread I was excited to see the finished speakers. Burl walnut is beautiful! Alas...
The Cornu wall mount is also a BLH, and perhaps one with one of the largest expansion ratios (about 1:25 throat to mouth area IIRC). Hence it has huge bass gain and it has no baffle step loss. But it is on a wall. It sounds really big though.
Ever think of building a Cornu Spiral horn? Now you can!
FF105WK or FE126 etc can work well on 28in size. It was designed originally for FE108Sigma I think. Cal made a 36in one and says that's worth it.
Ever think of building a Cornu Spiral horn? Now you can!
FF105WK or FE126 etc can work well on 28in size. It was designed originally for FE108Sigma I think. Cal made a 36in one and says that's worth it.
It should be noted that the drivers in Cal’s as pictured are FF125wKeN. He has tried many drivers in his. The Cornu is an very elegant design, but you do need appropriate wall space to mount them, often a gotcha in real-world rooms.
Here is a wall mounted horn for the FE206 designed by a Joe-List member:
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/j-Day-wallHorn-070411.pdf
dave
Here is a wall mounted horn for the FE206 designed by a Joe-List member:
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/j-Day-wallHorn-070411.pdf
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.