Best 8" bassdriver

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#22
Re: Re: 8" drivers

DIY_Peter said:



So bassicly you're saying that it's no use to spend the extra money on the hds?

I've build a speaker with the hds 182. They sound good, but somethings not right. It's really hard to pinpoint. The bass is really good, but there's something wrong in the midrange. I thought that the driver might be a litlte to large to give a good midrange. It's also possible there's something wrong with the crossover. It was designed by someone else. And I'm beginning to doubt his competence...

Anyway, I think I can get a better sound out of these drivers.
I've contacted someone to do some measurements for me. Maybe that will clear things up.

How do the hds drivers compare to the scan speak mid/woofers? is there a big difference?
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For my money, in a standard box speaker system, I would rather go with a CSX...UNLESS...you really want a cast basket. Then go with the HDS. For an open baffle system, the HDS drivers are definately the way to go, no question.


I bet the measurements will help a lot. The CSX drivers are very smooth in band, but tend to roll off rather quickly above their usable range. Usually much greater than 12dB an octave which is pretty standard for normal poly cones or paper cones. If you don't account for this rolloff in your crossover the sound can get very strange indeed. Maybe this is why people don't use them more for kits, I don't know.

For instance, I have achieved a 4'th order acoustic rolloff on the CSX 7" driver with a single inductor. So what looks like a first order circuit is actually a fourth order acoustical rolloff, and it's this rolloff that matters.

If you use more components you'll have a hole in your response that can be hard to track down without measurement gear.

Scott
 
#23
Bylie said:
I was wondering myself how the peerless fare against scanspeaks like the 8545 or 8546. I know they're a lot more expensive but lately I've been hearing a lot of people saying the same thing about the peerless : they sound great at first but later on there always seems something wrong. I'd be willing to give up my 3way project in favor of a 2way with for example a scanspeak 8545 or 8546 and a seas 27 tffc (great value for money). But only if I get more quality back!
What can I expect from the scanspeak 8545 and 8546 in terms of bass and mid and would the seas be a good companion for them?
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Bylie,

Unless you have access to measurement gear capable of doing a waterfall plot I wouldn't try to do something with the scan-speak drivers. I think a lot of the criticism of the peerless drivers comes from people not realizing that it only takes a few orders of electrical filter to come up with a very high order acoustical response. This will lead to all sorts of weird on and off axis stuff. That said the Peerless are easier in my opinion to work with because they don't have a broad band break up mode starting in the crossover frequency range like the scan speak drivers.

Also, the 27TFFC isn't quite up to par with the scan speak drivers for a two way. I don't think you can use them as low as needed. I've tried the 27TFFC before. The 27TDC is a newer and better tweeter in my (not so) humble opinion.

Scott
 
#25
JasonL said:
What about these drivers..

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/w8-740c.htm
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I know these aren't the drivers that we were talking about comparing, but they are the ones I have for which I have measurement data handy.

Here are two IMD distortion plots, scaled for 96dB output at 1meter. The two woofers are a Tang Band 4" driver that's roughly$11 and a Vifa TC driver that's roughly $20. For the extra $10 US, you get a 9dB decrease in 2'nd order IMD products and even more at the higher end products.

First the Tang Band driver.
 

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#27
Bylie said:
I know they're a lot more expensive but lately I've been hearing a lot of people saying the same thing about the peerless : they sound great at first but later on there always seems something wrong.
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I doubt that that has anything to do with the quality of the drivers. They constantly get good reviews in DIY magazines.

Maybe people are building the wrong crossovers for them.

At first I was really happy with them, because they were my first DIY project and they sounded good.
But the guy who sold them to me said the finished speakers would sound at least as good as my B&W Matrix 803S2.
Well, they don't 🙂

I don't think it's easy to build speakers in that class.

Many DIY'rs claim that their designs sound better then high end commercial speakers, but I don't think many actually do.
Some will sound very good ofcourse.

It's fun to build something completely new, but it's really hard to build a high end speaker from scratch.
That's why I'm thinking about something like the proac clones for my next project. A little less exciting, but safe.

Although a project with scanspeak woofers and acuton (thiel & partner) tweeter sounds tempting 🙂
 
#28
The proac's are also quite good if I can believe the comments on this board. I would love to build them, but the whole fuss about the crossovers kept me from doing it until now. It's gotten hard to keep track on what's the current status of the proac's, for example is the midglare gone now with the new filters or is it still there.
 
#29
Bylie said:
The proac's are also quite good if I can believe the comments on this board. I would love to build them, but the whole fuss about the crossovers kept me from doing it until now. It's gotten hard to keep track on what's the current status of the proac's, for example is the midglare gone now with the new filters or is it still there.
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As far as I can tell from the last posts, the problems have been resolved. They weren't very big to start with either.


It's about the safest project you can build. And it's not that expensive either
 
#31
A little question If you had to decide between 2 designs :

- diy proac response 2.5
- mtm with peerless csx 176 and seas 27tdc

Which would be the best choice to make if you're after quality music but also like to watch some movies now and then :goodbad: ?
 
#32
Bylie said:
A little question If you had to decide between 2 designs :

- diy proac response 2.5
- mtm with peerless csx 176 and seas 27tdc

Which would be the best choice to make if you're after quality music but also like to watch some movies now and then :goodbad: ?
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The mtm could be a good speaker, but de the Proac WILL be a good speaker.

I would chose the proac. The proac scan speak tweeter has a very pleasant sound. maybe not as detailed as the more expensive scan speaks, but many people love it's sound.

The proac is great as a first project and I should have build it in stead of this peerless mtm.
 
#33
I mentioned that I had some problems with my MTM that uses 2 peerless HDS mid/woofers and the wa10 tweeter.

A few weeks back I had them measured, and found out that the crossover design was really bad. someone else (who claimed to be an expert 🙂) designed it for me. Anyway, I had some help from an experienced guy and we built a new crossover. The results are stunning. They now sound really good. The "dark" sound from the hds woofers is now totally gone.
They are very good drivers indeed.

Anyway, the next thing I'm going to invest in is some measuring software and a microphone. It's the last time I let some ******* design a crossover for me. Unless I have prove that he really knows what he's talking about.
 
#35
Eton

Hello,

I have had great bass both in depth, speed and clarity by using Eton 8 inch. I think Avalon uses them too.
This driver never shows this wooly or plastic or carton like aural signature. www.etongmbh.com
Another great brand is PHL but it gets 15 inch to go as low as an 8 inch Eton. With a 15 inch the impact is from another world nontheless.
 
#39
sorry for the late intro on the thread.
Yes the TB and MCM i did work on and my first thoughts were to go with the MCM.Not after a few months.
The suspension on the MCM just fell out of the world.After a few months of it in use the spyder is so loose.Not just on one but the 4 I had going.
The TB does not loose its control as the MCM did.

I am at this time helping Bob Koonce and Bob Wright do are artical for AAE mag using the TB,MCM, and the MA 8" as well.
Hands down the TB stomps them all .But needs a long port in a 14" Cube or a PR.So I am doing the PR work and Bob and Bob are doing the work on the port as well as the write up.I will just pass on my info to them.

So this will be coming out I believe they said in the Dec or Jan Audio Amature mag.

Compared to CSX I have not used them but the TB with a PR of 50mm does just fine for a 8"


Al
 
#40
Sometimes the TB line doens't get the respect they deserve, just because of the price. I'm not saying every driver is awesome, on the contrary, I feel that they have a good line for the price, but here and there they really have some nice gems that shine.

As for the 8" driver question, the TB is mostly suited for subwoofer use, while the CSX etc line are most suited as woofers in a 2-way or so.
 
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