Hi,
For my upcoming project (reflex/dipole hybrid) I'm looking for a good 8" bassdriver. I've already done some research and found following drivers :
- peerless hds 8"
- vifa p21wo-39-08
- vifa m21wo-39-08
All of them have a respectable linear excursion so I guess they're all usable. But now which of these is the better driver? I've found some diydesigns that use the vifa drivers but nobody seems to use the peerless, why is that?
Any help would be appreciated.
PS for those who wonder : I'm planning on making a reflex/dipole hybrid 3way (quite a mouthfull 😉). The bass section will be a reflex design because of efficiency reasons, the mid and highs will be a dipole and use a peerless hds 5.5" and a seas 27 tffc
For my upcoming project (reflex/dipole hybrid) I'm looking for a good 8" bassdriver. I've already done some research and found following drivers :
- peerless hds 8"
- vifa p21wo-39-08
- vifa m21wo-39-08
All of them have a respectable linear excursion so I guess they're all usable. But now which of these is the better driver? I've found some diydesigns that use the vifa drivers but nobody seems to use the peerless, why is that?
Any help would be appreciated.
PS for those who wonder : I'm planning on making a reflex/dipole hybrid 3way (quite a mouthfull 😉). The bass section will be a reflex design because of efficiency reasons, the mid and highs will be a dipole and use a peerless hds 5.5" and a seas 27 tffc
What about the Seas L22RN4X/P? It looks interesting.
Datasheet
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/woofers/H1208.pdf
--
Brian
Datasheet
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/woofers/H1208.pdf
--
Brian
It looks interesting indeed but it has rather low efficiency, I'm only planning on one 8" woofer per box.
CSX8"
I don't know why people aren't using the Peerless HDS and CSX drivers in more kits. I've used the 5.5, 6.5, 8 and 10" csx drivers and love them all. They are great. If your crossover frequency is below 500Hz, then use the CSX 8" and save yourself some $.
Scott
I don't know why people aren't using the Peerless HDS and CSX drivers in more kits. I've used the 5.5, 6.5, 8 and 10" csx drivers and love them all. They are great. If your crossover frequency is below 500Hz, then use the CSX 8" and save yourself some $.
Scott
Hello Scott,
I am also very curious about CSX - and why so little written about them on the net ?! They seem like nice drivers. I am planning to use CSX 10" for sealed woofer/sub modules.
In what application did you use the 10" ?
LageB
I am also very curious about CSX - and why so little written about them on the net ?! They seem like nice drivers. I am planning to use CSX 10" for sealed woofer/sub modules.
In what application did you use the 10" ?
LageB
I am currently building a sealed sub using the 850146 Peerless CSX driver - from initial tests (with unpainted box) it sounds good. But this is my first sub - so could not claim to be an expert.
My brother is about to use the 850136, which should also be good, assuming your room is not too large.
James
My brother is about to use the 850136, which should also be good, assuming your room is not too large.
James
CSX drivers...
I don't know why they don't get more press, here is a partial list of my CSX applications:
5.5" CSX driver, midrange in high end three-way tower system
7" CSX driver, bass-mid in a two way ported box. (works great)
8" CSX driver, bass-mid in a two way ported box, great bass, above 2k requires a lot of crossover attention.
10" CSX drive, isobaric passive radiator subwoofer, great, but was susceptible to overload
10"CSX driver, sealed 80L enclosure, tight accurate bass, not enough output for HT sub duty unless you use two. This was a bass driver in a three way system so it was okay.
10"CSX driver, vented 60L, a little on the "plump" side, but that's what the customer wanted.
Scott
I don't know why they don't get more press, here is a partial list of my CSX applications:
5.5" CSX driver, midrange in high end three-way tower system
7" CSX driver, bass-mid in a two way ported box. (works great)
8" CSX driver, bass-mid in a two way ported box, great bass, above 2k requires a lot of crossover attention.
10" CSX drive, isobaric passive radiator subwoofer, great, but was susceptible to overload
10"CSX driver, sealed 80L enclosure, tight accurate bass, not enough output for HT sub duty unless you use two. This was a bass driver in a three way system so it was okay.
10"CSX driver, vented 60L, a little on the "plump" side, but that's what the customer wanted.
Scott
As has been reported before, Peerless tends to make drivers that have specs which vary considerably from the published ones, but which tend to work out correctly when placed in a box. Countervailing errors.
I would ignore the difference in the HDS and CSX specs and say the only real difference is that the HDS has a cast frame, the CSX a stamped frame. And the price.
I would ignore the difference in the HDS and CSX specs and say the only real difference is that the HDS has a cast frame, the CSX a stamped frame. And the price.
My take is that when the HDS series was launched, the same motor and suspension were put into the CSX series. The published specs for the HDS series seem close, and what gets measured for the CSX series matches the corresponding HDS.
850122(CSX)/811815
Bob
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
850122(CSX)/811815
Bob
Member
Joined 2002
I do believe it was RAW that had written about the W8 driver and it's MCM counterpart. I'm sure it was he but cannot find it on his webpage now.
But as I remember he liked the MCM more (and it was the same price I do believe) but the drawback that kept me from trying one out was that they didn't preform well except with a passive radiator, and needed either many radiators or the one reccomended, which costs more than the driver itself...
But as I remember he liked the MCM more (and it was the same price I do believe) but the drawback that kept me from trying one out was that they didn't preform well except with a passive radiator, and needed either many radiators or the one reccomended, which costs more than the driver itself...
8" Drivers...more info
Bob,
The CSX drivers date back quite a while, they came before the HDS series woofers. I bought my first CSX drivers in 1997 or 1998 and they were at least a couple of years old at that point. The HDS drivers are more accurately described as a cast frame version of the CSX drivers. I think they may have done some changes to the magnetic circuit to account for the fact that the frames are different.
The CSX drivers have never been particularly close to the published specs, but they do tend to work well in boxes based on them. The differences in parameters tend to cancel each other out. The one exception is the CSX 7" driver which would seem to work well in a small sealed enclosure. It does not work very well at all in that app.
Jason, and JoeBob
Don't compare the TB drivers to the Peerless Denmark drivers. They are two different worlds. While the TB drivers are very good for their price, they are not competitors by any means. While some of the Peerless drivers perform at a world class level, and do so in several different areas, the TB drivers are very good drivers for the price. That's all you can expect from them. The same goes for some of the MCM branded woofers.
I have never sold a system with a TB or MCM driver, and I've tried them several times. I've never been comfortable putting my name on a product with their drivers. I have sold systems with Peerless, Vifa, Seas, and Morel drivers.
Scott
Bob,
The CSX drivers date back quite a while, they came before the HDS series woofers. I bought my first CSX drivers in 1997 or 1998 and they were at least a couple of years old at that point. The HDS drivers are more accurately described as a cast frame version of the CSX drivers. I think they may have done some changes to the magnetic circuit to account for the fact that the frames are different.
The CSX drivers have never been particularly close to the published specs, but they do tend to work well in boxes based on them. The differences in parameters tend to cancel each other out. The one exception is the CSX 7" driver which would seem to work well in a small sealed enclosure. It does not work very well at all in that app.
Jason, and JoeBob
Don't compare the TB drivers to the Peerless Denmark drivers. They are two different worlds. While the TB drivers are very good for their price, they are not competitors by any means. While some of the Peerless drivers perform at a world class level, and do so in several different areas, the TB drivers are very good drivers for the price. That's all you can expect from them. The same goes for some of the MCM branded woofers.
I have never sold a system with a TB or MCM driver, and I've tried them several times. I've never been comfortable putting my name on a product with their drivers. I have sold systems with Peerless, Vifa, Seas, and Morel drivers.
Scott
What about the csc range? they're even cheaper.
The frame isn't the only difference between the hds and csx range. The hds also have a ventilated spider.
The frame isn't the only difference between the hds and csx range. The hds also have a ventilated spider.
I have some Peerless (i can only guess the model WR210 or something like that) and they are really good, but the best 8" midass i've had has gotta be the Jordan JX150.
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
8" drivers
Umm, I'm going to be a bit of a smart-a**. The frame is the difference that allows for the spider to be vented. 😉 No, that is a pretty major difference, you are right. Last I heard though it was the same spider, cone and surround for the CSX and HDS models.
I wouldn't do the CSC range drivers since they don't have the faraday ring in the motor. Spend the extra$ and buy the CSX drivers.
I haven't suggested any of the uber drivers, like the Excel, Scan-Speak class because they weren't in the price range of the drivers originally listed.
I have attached a IMD measurement I made of my CSX 8" driver, adjusted for 96dB output, at one meter. I hope all of you find it interesting....
Scott
DIY_Peter said:
Umm, I'm going to be a bit of a smart-a**. The frame is the difference that allows for the spider to be vented. 😉 No, that is a pretty major difference, you are right. Last I heard though it was the same spider, cone and surround for the CSX and HDS models.
I wouldn't do the CSC range drivers since they don't have the faraday ring in the motor. Spend the extra$ and buy the CSX drivers.
I haven't suggested any of the uber drivers, like the Excel, Scan-Speak class because they weren't in the price range of the drivers originally listed.
I have attached a IMD measurement I made of my CSX 8" driver, adjusted for 96dB output, at one meter. I hope all of you find it interesting....
Scott
Attachments
Re: 8" drivers
So bassicly you're saying that it's no use to spend the extra money on the hds?
I've build a speaker with the hds 182. They sound good, but somethings not right. It's really hard to pinpoint. The bass is really good, but there's something wrong in the midrange. I thought that the driver might be a litlte to large to give a good midrange. It's also possible there's something wrong with the crossover. It was designed by someone else. And I'm beginning to doubt his competence...
Anyway, I think I can get a better sound out of these drivers.
I've contacted someone to do some measurements for me. Maybe that will clear things up.
How do the hds drivers compare to the scan speak mid/woofers? is there a big difference?
ScottRHinson said:
So bassicly you're saying that it's no use to spend the extra money on the hds?
I've build a speaker with the hds 182. They sound good, but somethings not right. It's really hard to pinpoint. The bass is really good, but there's something wrong in the midrange. I thought that the driver might be a litlte to large to give a good midrange. It's also possible there's something wrong with the crossover. It was designed by someone else. And I'm beginning to doubt his competence...
Anyway, I think I can get a better sound out of these drivers.
I've contacted someone to do some measurements for me. Maybe that will clear things up.
How do the hds drivers compare to the scan speak mid/woofers? is there a big difference?
I was wondering myself how the peerless fare against scanspeaks like the 8545 or 8546. I know they're a lot more expensive but lately I've been hearing a lot of people saying the same thing about the peerless : they sound great at first but later on there always seems something wrong. I'd be willing to give up my 3way project in favor of a 2way with for example a scanspeak 8545 or 8546 and a seas 27 tffc (great value for money). But only if I get more quality back!
What can I expect from the scanspeak 8545 and 8546 in terms of bass and mid and would the seas be a good companion for them?
What can I expect from the scanspeak 8545 and 8546 in terms of bass and mid and would the seas be a good companion for them?
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