oehlrich ... why cant you live here in Canada instead of over there when you show me something yummy like that 😡
Madmike2 said:
Yes it will. But to make a better impedanze match, put a 220 ohms resistor between pin 2 and 1 in the XLR plug. It will set the load to ~75 ohm. Works fine.
bjørn 🙂
Has anyone measured the DSP latency through the DCX2496? If so does the Behringer keep it consistant across each output or can the latency vary between outputs depending upon the amount of processing each output is doing?
Reason I ask is I had the Behringer do the automatic time alignment for the outputs in the Behringer. The numbers it came up with (which were pretty consistant over multiple measurements) were quite a bit different then that actual path length differences between the drivers.
I'm doing some additional EQ on the woofer compared to the other drivers and I'm wondering if perhaps that is adding additional latency to that output and not the others?
Shawn
Reason I ask is I had the Behringer do the automatic time alignment for the outputs in the Behringer. The numbers it came up with (which were pretty consistant over multiple measurements) were quite a bit different then that actual path length differences between the drivers.
I'm doing some additional EQ on the woofer compared to the other drivers and I'm wondering if perhaps that is adding additional latency to that output and not the others?
Shawn
sfogg said:
The answer is definitely NOT. The number and kind of filters did not bring in any additional latency. What it brings is a phase shift because the 2496 uses IIR filers but this is quite natural and has nothing to do with latency.
OK, then why does it's auto align keep measuring roughly 6 feet of path length difference between the woofer and the mid and roughly 7.5' between the woofer and tweeter. I've tried different measurement locations and these numbers are pretty consistant.
The actual path length difference between the mid and the tweeter is more like 10-12". Between the mid and the woofer is around 12-18" hence the question about latency through the DSP. (All horns)
Shawn
The actual path length difference between the mid and the tweeter is more like 10-12". Between the mid and the woofer is around 12-18" hence the question about latency through the DSP. (All horns)
Shawn
sfogg said:
Shawn, good question. I did not make real experiments with autoalign but I took measurements with my scope at the outputs of the unit and the signals did not have any unwanted legacy at all. Maybee autoalign is not that correct. I testetd it with my Quadral Vulkan box speakers and anything looked good. I also tested it with my new open baffles and I got absolutely wrong results.
Seems the arithmetic process with a lot of FFT inside it maybe not as precice as it should?
Shawn,
The actual latency of the DCX2496 (with no delays programmed) is 0.8 milliseconds. As already mentioned group-delays associated with the crossover filters and EQ's are equivalent to analog counterparts so you would add those when applying them. Anyway, it doesn't matter what this overall delay is....only the relative delays between the output channels are of concern. (This is assuming you don't have some additional/other path with other equipment used simultaneously.)
I don't believe the auto-align feature is useful for home users. I had similar results to yours when I first experimented with a few years back. It yielded delay numbers that were totally unbelievable. I didn't try to understand it any further and quit. 🙂
Cheers,
Davey.
The actual latency of the DCX2496 (with no delays programmed) is 0.8 milliseconds. As already mentioned group-delays associated with the crossover filters and EQ's are equivalent to analog counterparts so you would add those when applying them. Anyway, it doesn't matter what this overall delay is....only the relative delays between the output channels are of concern. (This is assuming you don't have some additional/other path with other equipment used simultaneously.)
I don't believe the auto-align feature is useful for home users. I had similar results to yours when I first experimented with a few years back. It yielded delay numbers that were totally unbelievable. I didn't try to understand it any further and quit. 🙂
Cheers,
Davey.
Davey,
"Anyway, it doesn't matter what this overall delay is....only the relative delays between the output channels are of concern. (This is assuming you don't have some additional/other path with other equipment used simultaneously.)"
The overall delay is important in my case because I will be using these for the front three channels of a home theater system. I need to take the delay into account for the time alignment of the front channels with the subs and the rest of the surrounds. Going by ear and adjusting the center distance while listening to the blend between the center channel (through the DCX) and the L/Rs (not currently tri-amped) it seems like the DCX is adding about 9ms of overall delay to the signal. I'll verify that through measurements when I get a chance.
"I had similar results to yours when I first experimented with a few years back. It yielded delay numbers that were totally unbelievable. "
OK, I'll have to see about measuring the delay with ETF and aligning the drivers that way.
Thanks,
Shawn
"Anyway, it doesn't matter what this overall delay is....only the relative delays between the output channels are of concern. (This is assuming you don't have some additional/other path with other equipment used simultaneously.)"
The overall delay is important in my case because I will be using these for the front three channels of a home theater system. I need to take the delay into account for the time alignment of the front channels with the subs and the rest of the surrounds. Going by ear and adjusting the center distance while listening to the blend between the center channel (through the DCX) and the L/Rs (not currently tri-amped) it seems like the DCX is adding about 9ms of overall delay to the signal. I'll verify that through measurements when I get a chance.
"I had similar results to yours when I first experimented with a few years back. It yielded delay numbers that were totally unbelievable. "
OK, I'll have to see about measuring the delay with ETF and aligning the drivers that way.
Thanks,
Shawn
Hi Shawn,
I was unable to use the automatic feature of DCX, giving in my case nonconsistent measurements.
But if you are using basshorns, and unless those are very short or positioned well in advance with respect to the rest of your setup, a path difference of 12"-18" seems rather short.
You are taking into account the path inside the horn, aren't you?
Regards
Miguel mentero
I was unable to use the automatic feature of DCX, giving in my case nonconsistent measurements.
But if you are using basshorns, and unless those are very short or positioned well in advance with respect to the rest of your setup, a path difference of 12"-18" seems rather short.
You are taking into account the path inside the horn, aren't you?
Regards
Miguel mentero
I had the same problems before a pro-audio friend of mine did measurements with some fine equipment he uses and found out that the DCX's auto-align functionnality is quite accurate (i.e. millimeter accuracy). Inconsistency is mainly due to environemental uncontroled effects.
Along with this he pointed out the following :
- measurement microphone should be positioned not too far from the loudspeaker. 1m to 2m seems to be alright
- alignment should not be done using both channels. Rather work with one channel, then copy results to the other.
- environemental elements (furniture, windows, floor tiles, room corner s etc..) should be kept as minimal as possible.
Last point means that you may have to take the speaker away from it's usual location. My friend says that his garden was definitely the best spot.
It would be interesting if someone in here could post comparison results like DCX's auto-align compared to Adobe Audigy or Cooledit measurements.
Thierry Martin
Along with this he pointed out the following :
- measurement microphone should be positioned not too far from the loudspeaker. 1m to 2m seems to be alright
- alignment should not be done using both channels. Rather work with one channel, then copy results to the other.
- environemental elements (furniture, windows, floor tiles, room corner s etc..) should be kept as minimal as possible.
Last point means that you may have to take the speaker away from it's usual location. My friend says that his garden was definitely the best spot.
It would be interesting if someone in here could post comparison results like DCX's auto-align compared to Adobe Audigy or Cooledit measurements.
Thierry Martin
Miguel,
"You are taking into account the path inside the horn, aren't you?"
Yes. The bass horns aren't terribly long (LaScala bass bins) and the mid-horn (805B) is around 17" deep. The difference between the two is no where near the 6 feet or so the Behringer is specifying.
Shawn
"You are taking into account the path inside the horn, aren't you?"
Yes. The bass horns aren't terribly long (LaScala bass bins) and the mid-horn (805B) is around 17" deep. The difference between the two is no where near the 6 feet or so the Behringer is specifying.
Shawn
Which is better
Have anyone tried to connect the output on the DCX in different ways:
- Open pin3
- Load balancing with resistors from pin 2 and 3 to ground over a load resistor
Which is best soundwise?
Best regards
BJorn
Have anyone tried to connect the output on the DCX in different ways:
- Open pin3
- Load balancing with resistors from pin 2 and 3 to ground over a load resistor
Which is best soundwise?
Best regards
BJorn
Madmike2 said:
Careful, If you talk about the SRC2496, I think the gain control only works with the analog input ...
Looking for digital hires input?
Are you looking for high resolution digital source for your DCX2496?
My Hires SACD and DVD-A digital output DIY-Kit for Pioneer DV-575A and DV-578A is ready for shipping now!
Documentation and anyling you should know about the kit you will find on my homepage:
http://freerider.dyndns.org (8AM to 10PM German time)
If you like to know more about its history look here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48393
Charly
Are you looking for high resolution digital source for your DCX2496?
My Hires SACD and DVD-A digital output DIY-Kit for Pioneer DV-575A and DV-578A is ready for shipping now!
Documentation and anyling you should know about the kit you will find on my homepage:
http://freerider.dyndns.org (8AM to 10PM German time)
If you like to know more about its history look here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48393
Charly
Would be nice to have that for my DV 59 AVI.
The philips dvd 963 at least had 24/98 dvd output. That is not even available on the pioneer, gets downsampled to 48 kHz.
Maybe you could...
The philips dvd 963 at least had 24/98 dvd output. That is not even available on the pioneer, gets downsampled to 48 kHz.
Maybe you could...
No Chance!
Currenty I work on providing the board for DV-585A and DV-588A.. I ordered a 585A (european model) and check it out next weekend but I expect it to work.
Charly
