Studio monitors by nature...are....for the most part voiced with as flat a response as possible so that in the recording/mixdown process adding extra coloration in the form of FR anomolies is avoided....for the most part. I've seen the on axis close mic'd response of the 2031 and it's pretty flat. It makes sense when thinking of 'coloration' to think of colors and for the sake of simplicity use the example of adding yellow to green. At some point it's not yellow anymore nor green......but what? Exaggerated midbass freq are going to dominate the audible spectrum and overpower the nuances you appreciate in the 800hz+ range. It's that simple.
And creating a single, adjustable port on the rear does nothing more than provide you with a means of adjusting the tune and in retrospect the midbass you find lacking. It's a matter of voicing and you are in a DIY thread. Voice away! You can simply adjust the newly added port to equal the tuning of the original tune if you don't like the results. Nothing that can't be undone. It DOES get rid of the diffraction effects caused by the existing ports, CLEARLY evident and audible in Dan's measurments. So the way i see it, all that can be done is IMPROVE upon a $99 speaker with a tiny bit of effort. You're already unhappy so.....
I think he got that from what I was saying. He took it a bit wrong. Anyway, you can see it's effects here:
audio blog: Bass changes from port/enclosure stuffing
Dan
I 'm with Tnargs
I can't believe the man with the dog on the beach taking two measures from 2" and farer...where ? On the beach??😕
BTW I googled 'behringer b2031p' just for the sake and...they do look nice (good) 🙂😱
Punchiness and compression
A lot of punchiness comes from a system that doesn't compress the dynamics of the music.
New speakers often compress the sound because of the stiffness of the speaker suspensions and spiders. These usually loosen up with use. You may find the Behringers get punchier after a couple of hundred hours.
-dr_vega
A lot of punchiness comes from a system that doesn't compress the dynamics of the music.
New speakers often compress the sound because of the stiffness of the speaker suspensions and spiders. These usually loosen up with use. You may find the Behringers get punchier after a couple of hundred hours.
-dr_vega
B3031A
The B3031A look like a good deal with their BG Neo3 tweeters.
.
SameDayMusic.com: User Reviews for Behringer B3031A 2-Way Active Studio Monitors
.
The B3031A look like a good deal with their BG Neo3 tweeters.
.
SameDayMusic.com: User Reviews for Behringer B3031A 2-Way Active Studio Monitors
.
You know this should have been obvious to me, but the way you explain it here turns on the light bulb. The speaker is designed to let every detail show through, whereas making it punchy would cause a certain frequency range to drown out the small details -- which are what make the difference between a speaker that is very detailed and one that's not. Since I ordered this speaker because I wanted maximum detail, it would be nuts to spoil it in the quest for punchiness.
I will try some of the suggestions you guys have made when time and opportunity permit. But I think I have arrived at a simple solution for now: Connect the 2031s to my speaker A outputs, and the OSMTMs to the speaker B outputs. Then, when I'm listening to Mozart or Diana Krall I'll keep it on A, but when listening to Fall Out Boy or Van Halen, I'll switch it to B. Both speakers are modestly sized, so this shouldn't be a problem.
Hey Dan:
Would it be worthwhile to you to plug one of the ports as Sreten suggests, and measure the effect on the bass?
That does sound interesting for an experiment to see measured effects. Maybe the next time I do some measurements........
Dan
Dan
What you are probably experiencing here is better dispersion offered by the B2031s over your diy design. When speakers beam sound, you get the in your face effect. A high dispersion design like the Behringer will sound laid back in comparison because the phantom image forms wayyy back behind the plane of the speakers.
If you want punch, you have to move lots of air. I would go with a 12 or 15" eminence bass bin crossed actively to the 2031s.
I haven't heard the 2031s, but looks like they are a real gem.
Great! You've just filled in a big hole at about ~ 200 hz that, I would guess, about 80% - 90% of even serious "diy audio" folks don't even seem to be aware of...
I listened to a lot of different speakers, and any that had no low mounted woofers bugged me (took me a long time until I figured it out) until I tried this, which lead me to measure + guess as to what was occuring. Depending where you are sitting, how high, and how far away your speakers are there is a "floor bounce cancellation" which you've probably just removed.
I have not done "room treatments" as I have been more interested in speakers that sound good in typical listening environments.
🙂
I think that is a very good point, however practically every speaker and even most studios will have some floor bounce suck-out going on, so most music is probably balanced for it to some degree, don't you think?
It's more complicated than just "floor bounce" (see Roy Allison), but the suckout is real and audible. AFAIK, no-one compensates for it in recordings, nor can they, since it will be different in every setup.
On topic, I had my first experience with these speakers today. They were used as PA units at a conference I was attending- the sound seemed remarkably good. I'd love to try these out in my living room with music, but for human voice in a large space, they did a fine job.
On topic, I had my first experience with these speakers today. They were used as PA units at a conference I was attending- the sound seemed remarkably good. I'd love to try these out in my living room with music, but for human voice in a large space, they did a fine job.
Just out of curiousity, what is the cabinet and mid-bass driver size on the Overnight Sensation MTM?
The Behringer is a small box 8" woofer, with allegedly linear response down to 55hz. 55hz is nice, but it is not 30hz.
From what I've been able to find, the Overnight Sensation MTM have twin 4" midbass (HiVi) in a 9 liter cabinet (0.32 ft³), and based on the frequency response plot, they have a peak at 300hz of about +3db to +4db and a slow roll off down to about 100hz at -6db.
So, not a bass heavy speaker.
Pure speculation, but I would guess the difference you are hearing is a matter of perspective. The thin bass and 300hz peak vs the seeming good bass and flat response of the Behringer.
Also, the Behringer has squeezed a 8" speaker, which is still roughly twice as big as TWO 4" drivers into a pretty small cabinet. As other have pointed out, even as a bass reflex, that can have a compression effect on the "punchiness" of the speaker.
I can't find the actual dimensions on the Behringer, but I would not expect it to be much in terms of volume. I'm guessing a little over 1 ft³.
Just a few thoughts.
Steve/bluewizard
The Behringer is a small box 8" woofer, with allegedly linear response down to 55hz. 55hz is nice, but it is not 30hz.
From what I've been able to find, the Overnight Sensation MTM have twin 4" midbass (HiVi) in a 9 liter cabinet (0.32 ft³), and based on the frequency response plot, they have a peak at 300hz of about +3db to +4db and a slow roll off down to about 100hz at -6db.
So, not a bass heavy speaker.
Pure speculation, but I would guess the difference you are hearing is a matter of perspective. The thin bass and 300hz peak vs the seeming good bass and flat response of the Behringer.
Also, the Behringer has squeezed a 8" speaker, which is still roughly twice as big as TWO 4" drivers into a pretty small cabinet. As other have pointed out, even as a bass reflex, that can have a compression effect on the "punchiness" of the speaker.
I can't find the actual dimensions on the Behringer, but I would not expect it to be much in terms of volume. I'm guessing a little over 1 ft³.
Just a few thoughts.
Steve/bluewizard
A fairly comprehensive floor bounce post:
audio blog: A little more into boundary conditions
Those Behringers get down to 20 Hz in my studio and 30 Hz in my living room. None too shabby as far as bass goes. If Zilch were still with us, he'd vouch for their bass. For the money there's not much to complain about. Heck, for twice the money. You could still do worse for 10X the money.
Dealing with floor bounce isn't difficult, but few are willing to do it. Studios seem to focus more on ceiling slap.
Dan
audio blog: A little more into boundary conditions
Those Behringers get down to 20 Hz in my studio and 30 Hz in my living room. None too shabby as far as bass goes. If Zilch were still with us, he'd vouch for their bass. For the money there's not much to complain about. Heck, for twice the money. You could still do worse for 10X the money.
Dealing with floor bounce isn't difficult, but few are willing to do it. Studios seem to focus more on ceiling slap.
Dan
I did a quick search on the Behringer B2031P and found them as low as $70 each, though about $280 a pair is more common. They sound like pretty stunning speakers for that price (either price, but superior for $140/pr).
At that price, I'm tempted to buy a pair even though I don't need them. I'm not even sure what I would do with them, but at $140/pr, it is hard to pass up.
Also, thanks for the Audio Blog link; very interesting stuff.
Steve/bluewizard
At that price, I'm tempted to buy a pair even though I don't need them. I'm not even sure what I would do with them, but at $140/pr, it is hard to pass up.
Also, thanks for the Audio Blog link; very interesting stuff.
Steve/bluewizard
I assume you got that from the FR graph posted on Paul Carmody's site. (http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/overnightsensationmtm) When I saw that graph I was puzzled since, having heard the speakers, they clearly go well below 100hz. I think the line representing the "modeled" FR (the grey line) is more like the reality in terms of the bass.
I'm sure they go at least as low as the 2031s. But admittedly, I don't have the measuring equipment to back that up.
BlueWizard:
That being said, after listening to them a bit more, I don't think the lack that I'm perceiving is necessarily a lack of bass per se. When I crank up the bass, turn on the loudness button, and slide the lowest frequency slider on my EQ to the max position, they do put out bass. But electric guitars still sound significantly more laid back than in the OSMTMs.
Since I know the 2031s objectively measure pretty flat, I guess it must be that the OSMTMs are peaking at some other frequency that emphasizes electric guitars. I'm able to accentuate them somewhat more by raising the middle slider of my 7-band EQ -- but I forget what frequency band that is and I can't check it since I'm not at home right now.
That being said, after listening to them a bit more, I don't think the lack that I'm perceiving is necessarily a lack of bass per se. When I crank up the bass, turn on the loudness button, and slide the lowest frequency slider on my EQ to the max position, they do put out bass. But electric guitars still sound significantly more laid back than in the OSMTMs.
Since I know the 2031s objectively measure pretty flat, I guess it must be that the OSMTMs are peaking at some other frequency that emphasizes electric guitars. I'm able to accentuate them somewhat more by raising the middle slider of my 7-band EQ -- but I forget what frequency band that is and I can't check it since I'm not at home right now.
Filius ,
Yes, that is the webpage and frequency response graph I was using.
According to the graph key, the gray lines is the modeled response, and the black line is the Total Response, which I take to mean the actual measured response.
Keep in mind, the speaker has twin 4" woofers. That's not going to shake the earth, but would probably make a good Surround Sound speaker, or similar. Apparently, from the information on that page, the real plus of the speakers is clear detailed midrange.
The specs on the raw driver show a roll off starting at 100hz, and a low end response of about 50hz @ -6db. The Overnight Sensation starts its roll off sooner, and as such, does not go quite as low. Maybe the midrange presence and general quality is what the OP is hearing in the speakers.
Just a thought.
Steve/bluewizard
Yes, that is the webpage and frequency response graph I was using.
According to the graph key, the gray lines is the modeled response, and the black line is the Total Response, which I take to mean the actual measured response.
Keep in mind, the speaker has twin 4" woofers. That's not going to shake the earth, but would probably make a good Surround Sound speaker, or similar. Apparently, from the information on that page, the real plus of the speakers is clear detailed midrange.
The specs on the raw driver show a roll off starting at 100hz, and a low end response of about 50hz @ -6db. The Overnight Sensation starts its roll off sooner, and as such, does not go quite as low. Maybe the midrange presence and general quality is what the OP is hearing in the speakers.
Just a thought.
Steve/bluewizard