After reading rave reviews in various places, with objective data to back it up, I ordered a pair of B2031Ps. After listening to them for about a week, I'm both very impressed and slightly disappointed.
As advertised, they are incredibly detailed. You hear every little tiny sound in a good recording, especially classical and jazz recordings. It's hard to even imagine a speaker being more detailed than these. Since detail was my holy grail before buying these, I thought I had achieved nirvana.
But then I started noticing that, while they are nearly perfect (to my ears) with classical and jazz, they come across as flat with some rock-and-roll songs.
For example the song "Sugar We're Going Down" by Fall Out Boy starts out with some high-energy kick drums and heavy guitars. My DIY speakers, which are Overnight Sensation MTMs ("OSMTMs"), reproduce those sounds with punch and energy. You can almost feel it viscerally. I'm not talking about deep, powerful bass that rumbles the floor. Just what I would call punchiness, as if the speakers are punching holes in the air. For rock songs like this, it's just what you would want.
When the 2031s play this song you hear every sound, even more so, and that's a beautiful thing. But you don't feel the energy you feel with the OSMTMs.
I tried to compensate for this by EQing, adjusting my sub various ways, and trying two subs. But I'm starting to think it's not a matter of frequency response, I suspect it's the vented design of the OSMTMs that's enables them to do this. I just can't replicate it with the 2031s no matter what I try.
My questions are:
1. Is there anything I can do to the 2031 to make it punchier? For example, I have read that the vents on the 2031 are not there to improve the bass response. Therefore you can plug them with cotton, which actually improves them since it eliminates some diffraction effects.
In that case, I wondered if you could just seal the vents with duct tape, making it a sealed design, and then stuff the boxes with polyfil or something to improve the bass response? Does that make any sense?
Then again, maybe the two things are mutually exclusive: Maybe when you have perfect detail you lack punch, and when you have punch you sacrifice detail?
2. Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf or DIY design that I could get for the same money (about $200), that would have the detail of the 2031 but the punchiness of the OSMTM? I suspect not, or else the 2031 would not be getting amount of the attention it's been getting. I might be able to go $300 or so if I saved for a few months, but that's about all I can personally justify spending on speakers in my situation.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
As advertised, they are incredibly detailed. You hear every little tiny sound in a good recording, especially classical and jazz recordings. It's hard to even imagine a speaker being more detailed than these. Since detail was my holy grail before buying these, I thought I had achieved nirvana.
But then I started noticing that, while they are nearly perfect (to my ears) with classical and jazz, they come across as flat with some rock-and-roll songs.
For example the song "Sugar We're Going Down" by Fall Out Boy starts out with some high-energy kick drums and heavy guitars. My DIY speakers, which are Overnight Sensation MTMs ("OSMTMs"), reproduce those sounds with punch and energy. You can almost feel it viscerally. I'm not talking about deep, powerful bass that rumbles the floor. Just what I would call punchiness, as if the speakers are punching holes in the air. For rock songs like this, it's just what you would want.
When the 2031s play this song you hear every sound, even more so, and that's a beautiful thing. But you don't feel the energy you feel with the OSMTMs.
I tried to compensate for this by EQing, adjusting my sub various ways, and trying two subs. But I'm starting to think it's not a matter of frequency response, I suspect it's the vented design of the OSMTMs that's enables them to do this. I just can't replicate it with the 2031s no matter what I try.
My questions are:
1. Is there anything I can do to the 2031 to make it punchier? For example, I have read that the vents on the 2031 are not there to improve the bass response. Therefore you can plug them with cotton, which actually improves them since it eliminates some diffraction effects.
In that case, I wondered if you could just seal the vents with duct tape, making it a sealed design, and then stuff the boxes with polyfil or something to improve the bass response? Does that make any sense?
Then again, maybe the two things are mutually exclusive: Maybe when you have perfect detail you lack punch, and when you have punch you sacrifice detail?
2. Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf or DIY design that I could get for the same money (about $200), that would have the detail of the 2031 but the punchiness of the OSMTM? I suspect not, or else the 2031 would not be getting amount of the attention it's been getting. I might be able to go $300 or so if I saved for a few months, but that's about all I can personally justify spending on speakers in my situation.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Hello,
I have had a pair of the same Behringers for a couple of months.
My impression is somewhere between detailed and too bright.
I now have them running through the Behringer 2496 equalizer with a gradual tapering off of the FR to about 12 db down at the high end. I like this better, personal taste! I am using a Alesis 500 watt amplifier.
A sub helps too!
DT
All just for fun!
I have had a pair of the same Behringers for a couple of months.
My impression is somewhere between detailed and too bright.
I now have them running through the Behringer 2496 equalizer with a gradual tapering off of the FR to about 12 db down at the high end. I like this better, personal taste! I am using a Alesis 500 watt amplifier.
A sub helps too!
DT
All just for fun!
I thought people have already learned to distrust rave reviews. 🙂
Rock music is often overly compressed. For instance, in Judas Priest albums kick drums totally killed by compression. Mid-bass boost must be used to fully enjoy the songs.
Rock music is often overly compressed. For instance, in Judas Priest albums kick drums totally killed by compression. Mid-bass boost must be used to fully enjoy the songs.
They're just little reflex boxes, and you didn't even bother to get the active version. Think maybe you're asking a bit too much? The actives are much easier to properly match to a subwoofer because they offer (switch selected) correction of the LF rolloff curve.
But they're still not "the best speaker ever made" . . . they're just very good for the price, and for what they are.
But they're still not "the best speaker ever made" . . . they're just very good for the price, and for what they are.
Deward: I'm not dissing them at all. I think they're fabulous speakers, so much so that I'm hesitant to return them, because after having heard them, I don't know if I can be satisfied with another model that doesn't have the clarity and detail that these have. I do listen to classical and jazz primarily, so these are perfect for my favorite types of music.
I was just hoping someone who had done a lot of testing or modding of these speakers (thinking specifically of DanTheMan or Wmax) might have a suggestion for improving the lack of punch.
I was just hoping someone who had done a lot of testing or modding of these speakers (thinking specifically of DanTheMan or Wmax) might have a suggestion for improving the lack of punch.
Unfortunately, stuffing the ports with cotton may well reduce some punch...... Even though it barely reduces the bass output. For some reason the only speakers I've heard with massive punch have big pro woofers in them and some sort of big horn/WG. Don't ask me why that is, but it seems so to me. Try different positions maybe. I'll say they certainly don't have the punch of my Eminence 12" speakers. Punch to me was just a thing only large, efficient, powerful motors with a high heat capacity could really do. The cotton only improves the treble--it injures the bass. I even think adding more internal damping may reduce "punch", but don't really know. Just my very subjective impression. There are certainly no perfect speakers, esp in any price range.😉
Dan
Dan
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Would you be able to try this?:
Put your subwoofers under the 2031Ps (one under each), turn the subs so that the woofers face you, then how does it sound?
Can you measure the FR of both types of speaker and post that?
Put your subwoofers under the 2031Ps (one under each), turn the subs so that the woofers face you, then how does it sound?
Can you measure the FR of both types of speaker and post that?
It sounds better! Frankly it's not the same "type" of punchiness as the OSMTMs. The OSs are punchy not only in the kick drums but also in the guitars, which really sound "in your face" on this song on those speakers. Whereas on the 2031s the guitars sound quite a bit more laid back -- accurate as heck but not in your face.
But you know, I may be able to live with it the way they're set up now. 🙂 If I have to give up one thing (a particular type of punchiness) to excel in another thing (detail and clarity), well that's how life usually is, isn't it?
I don't have equipment to measure FR. The best I can do is provide links to measurements that other people have done:
FR for the OSMTMs is here. For the B2031Ps, here is a link to measurements done by DanTheMan.
Hey, I appreciate the suggestion!
Well, you may be thinking of something more dramatic than me when you think of "punch". To me the OSMTMs are punchy, but my exposure to good gear is very limited.
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to give me some feedback.
Critofur, as a matter of fact, the more I listen to them, the more I like them this way. Different kind of punchy, but punchy nevertheless. AND detailed. 😀
Thanks bro!
Thanks bro!
I have listened to 2031A, my recommendations are as follows.
Check the design of the XO to see whether the design is transient perfect or not. Also play various music and swap the polarity at the output of the amps to see what changes occur in terms of image focus and punch of the various instruments in playback.
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If you want more 'punch' in the bass you will have to go active IMO.
Personally I blame the almost inevitable lo pass series inductor present in passive xovers.
It seems to make the bass 'mushy' to my ears as I have never heard a passive speaker producing 'punchy', clean bass.
Personally I blame the almost inevitable lo pass series inductor present in passive xovers.
It seems to make the bass 'mushy' to my ears as I have never heard a passive speaker producing 'punchy', clean bass.
Well, the speakers I'm comparing them with are punchy to me, and they are also passive. But maybe the active version of the 2031s would be punchier, I have no way of comparing. However I'm not sure why they would be, since it's the same drivers as in the passive, and they are being amplified either way.
You could certainly retune the box by eliminating the front ports and adding a single port to the rear. You'd need to figure out the net internal volume of them as is....which is gross internal volume minus the port,driver, bracing and other solid materials in the enclosure. Now by measuring the existing posts surface area and length, you can accurately sim the actual tuning. Obviously you're looking for a higher tuning so experiment with a simple hole in the rear and a lenght of PVC, reducing the length step by step througout the listening process. When the punch is too much or starts masking the detail of the midrange, you've cut too much. Simply replace with the previous length PVC permanently. The combined surface area of the drivers in the ONS MTMs is quite short of the surface of the 2031's woofer which is a very capable driver in iteslf. This is a tuning issue and nothing more. That clarity and lack of mid bass muddle goes a long way at the mixdown console as intended by design.
I appreciate your insights. Are you saying that trying to get more punch out of them is going to muddle the clarity that they are designed to have?
Don't muck around with the ports, and don't believe anyone who says they 'are not there to improve the bass response'.
If you are not EQ'ing your bass with measurements and decent EQ tools, then the missing punch is probably a combination of (a) some resonant peaking in the bass with the MTM setup and (b) the opposite with the B2031 setup.
The solution is not to keep changing speakers, but to sort the bass with EQ combined with speaker positioning and listening seat positioning.
If you are not EQ'ing your bass with measurements and decent EQ tools, then the missing punch is probably a combination of (a) some resonant peaking in the bass with the MTM setup and (b) the opposite with the B2031 setup.
The solution is not to keep changing speakers, but to sort the bass with EQ combined with speaker positioning and listening seat positioning.
Hi,
Two points :
A) MTM's due to the dual nature of the mids, even when measured flat can
sound like they have more midrange due to off axis response issues compared
to a MT. In fact AFAIK its actually quite difficult to get the "classic" 2 way
"studio" monitor sound with an MTM, AFAIK its easier with a MMT 2.5 way.
B) Blocking of one of the ports will detune the bass tuning 70%, it can work.
(Suggest the inside port of each speaker if you are going to give this a go.)
rgds, sreten.
Two points :
A) MTM's due to the dual nature of the mids, even when measured flat can
sound like they have more midrange due to off axis response issues compared
to a MT. In fact AFAIK its actually quite difficult to get the "classic" 2 way
"studio" monitor sound with an MTM, AFAIK its easier with a MMT 2.5 way.
B) Blocking of one of the ports will detune the bass tuning 70%, it can work.
(Suggest the inside port of each speaker if you are going to give this a go.)
rgds, sreten.
Thanks Tnargs and Sreten. It sounds like you think the main issue is that the MTMs have a hump that makes them sound punchier. If so then the answer would seem to be EQ, which makes sense since the 2031s have enough power handling and SPL for my needs -- I'm not trying to rattle the windows or anything -- so I can't think why they couldn't deliver more punch theoretically. I have tried EQing, but probably I need a better EQ. I have a 7-band and a 10-band, both of which I have tried without success. Maybe I need like a 20- or 30-band?