Re: once a week every sunday/monday night
and with which circuit were the batteries charged?
Greets, Ralf
Hartono said:
and with which circuit were the batteries charged?
Greets, Ralf
Re: Excited
Definetely very interested. I've looked at the output of the pair of 3.5Ah SLAs in my headphone amp with the scope (a nowadays lowtech 20MHz veteran, but still...) and couldn't find anything bothersome. Neither with them out of the circuit, nor with the amp drawing about 500mA current. So what exactly are we looking for (and under which conditions)?
On the other hand, have you looked at what's coming out of the mains these days? Ain't pretty, at least in this neck of the woods...
ALW said:
Definetely very interested. I've looked at the output of the pair of 3.5Ah SLAs in my headphone amp with the scope (a nowadays lowtech 20MHz veteran, but still...) and couldn't find anything bothersome. Neither with them out of the circuit, nor with the amp drawing about 500mA current. So what exactly are we looking for (and under which conditions)?
On the other hand, have you looked at what's coming out of the mains these days? Ain't pretty, at least in this neck of the woods...
I use trickle charger I bought from local shop
I disconnect the battery from the circuit, charge it with a trickel charger for approx 8-12 hours.🙂
The battery + the charger is now still in service in my friend's house, he still charge it once a week, never had any problem with reliability.
I disconnect the battery from the circuit, charge it with a trickel charger for approx 8-12 hours.🙂
The battery + the charger is now still in service in my friend's house, he still charge it once a week, never had any problem with reliability.
There is a lot of great dialogue going on between SE and ALW. I have a couple of questions.
What exactly is the chemical noise produced by batteries? I would understand it to mean that the chemical reactions at the cathode and anode plates occur in a rough way. Perhaps globs of ions discharging at times resulting in a rough delivery of current. So, I would imagine that smaller batteries than car batteries and perhaps higher quality ones may have better manufacturing quality and thus smoother current flow.
Next, I have seen some very high quality phone line amps and mic preamps that use battery power. Granted they are very small batteries. Wouldn't they need to be very clean, especially in this pre-amp location? Otherwise, I assume that they would use a very clean mains PSU.
I had a discussion with an owner of a high end audio store. One of the few remaining stereo places as everyone is now selling home theatre, since that's where the money seems to be. I guess he is a dinosaur. Very cool guy, however. Open-minded and didn't poo-poo the idea of me making my own stuff (primarily speakers and now amps). He was telling me that battery powered stereo will be the cause of hearing loss in listeners. The reason being that the music is so clean that people will be able to turn up the volumes very high before hearing any distortion.
I work in the medical field. Almost all important monitoring devices have battery power. These devices are measuring millivolts with extremely low current such as heart monitors, blood oxygenation monitors and portable EEGs. Given the electrical activity of most people's brains, one can easily appreciate the challenge of trying to measure brainwaves. This equipment must require high quality power supplies. Also, I can assure you that the technical staff in the hospitals are not paying attention to optimum battery maintainance. A device is used until it dies. When dead, it gets plugged in the utility room and replaced by a freshly charged unit.
I would appreciate it if some of you out there with oscilloscopes would take the challenge of measuring their amps with mains PSUs and battery supplies. if I weren't so poor (cheap) I'd do it myself.
Vic
What exactly is the chemical noise produced by batteries? I would understand it to mean that the chemical reactions at the cathode and anode plates occur in a rough way. Perhaps globs of ions discharging at times resulting in a rough delivery of current. So, I would imagine that smaller batteries than car batteries and perhaps higher quality ones may have better manufacturing quality and thus smoother current flow.
Next, I have seen some very high quality phone line amps and mic preamps that use battery power. Granted they are very small batteries. Wouldn't they need to be very clean, especially in this pre-amp location? Otherwise, I assume that they would use a very clean mains PSU.
I had a discussion with an owner of a high end audio store. One of the few remaining stereo places as everyone is now selling home theatre, since that's where the money seems to be. I guess he is a dinosaur. Very cool guy, however. Open-minded and didn't poo-poo the idea of me making my own stuff (primarily speakers and now amps). He was telling me that battery powered stereo will be the cause of hearing loss in listeners. The reason being that the music is so clean that people will be able to turn up the volumes very high before hearing any distortion.
I work in the medical field. Almost all important monitoring devices have battery power. These devices are measuring millivolts with extremely low current such as heart monitors, blood oxygenation monitors and portable EEGs. Given the electrical activity of most people's brains, one can easily appreciate the challenge of trying to measure brainwaves
. This equipment must require high quality power supplies. Also, I can assure you that the technical staff in the hospitals are not paying attention to optimum battery maintainance. A device is used until it dies. When dead, it gets plugged in the utility room and replaced by a freshly charged unit.I would appreciate it if some of you out there with oscilloscopes would take the challenge of measuring their amps with mains PSUs and battery supplies. if I weren't so poor (cheap) I'd do it myself.
Vic
vic said:
Not sure what exactly you mean by what exactly is it. It's noise. Random fluctuations of voltage. Only in this case it's caused by ions rather than electrons as it is in say a resistor or a transistor, or even wire.
What they would use would depend on the decisions made by the designer.
That's something I'd expect to hear from some former shoe salesman at Circuit City or Best Buy.
What's wrong with plain ol' listening?
If you want to listen to battery noise, just build this:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/sniffer.jpg">
</center>
Hmmmm. Why isn't this working anymore?
se
The store owner I was talking to was actually recommending battery power as a very clean. He had only a few systems, SS, tube, few preamps, and a turntable that ran on batteries. His only gripe was that his customers don't buy battery powered stuff.
I am eager to bring in my battery powered gainclone to test it against some of his high end gear.
I actually appreciate it when someone is open-minded enough to see the benefits of various philosophies of implementation.
At any rate, I hope to have my battery-powered system up and running soon. Maybe if I spent more time on it rather than at this keyboard...........
I am eager to bring in my battery powered gainclone to test it against some of his high end gear.
I actually appreciate it when someone is open-minded enough to see the benefits of various philosophies of implementation.
At any rate, I hope to have my battery-powered system up and running soon. Maybe if I spent more time on it rather than at this keyboard...........
I finished my battery PS + charger this weekend.It is dual mono +- 24v and it must weigh about 30kgs!In fact I had to make a special frame for the batteries to sit on so they would not bend the bottom plate of the case and of course sothat they wouldn't move about.
I can say that at some stages working with batteries is bit hairy because they are always "switched" on and are dying for you to short them on their open pins or when you plug in the leads.
I also modified the gainclone with 2 3pdt switches so that it can be powered from its AC PS as well.
I am very enthusiastic about the sound.More dynamics,better bass believe it or not,bigger soundstage, more natural sounding than the dual mono dual225 VAC trfo dual schottky bridge PS.
I can say that at some stages working with batteries is bit hairy because they are always "switched" on and are dying for you to short them on their open pins or when you plug in the leads.
I also modified the gainclone with 2 3pdt switches so that it can be powered from its AC PS as well.
I am very enthusiastic about the sound.More dynamics,better bass believe it or not,bigger soundstage, more natural sounding than the dual mono dual225 VAC trfo dual schottky bridge PS.
...YESSS
thats the same as some people say, which have plugged their amps/preamps to battery psu.
i will test my hiragas with batteries, too
thank you, protos
how big is the improvement?
slightly a bit or definately hearable, even in blind test?
how do you charge your batteries?
what kinda batteries did you use?
did you use capacitors, though?
greets,
Ralf
thats the same as some people say, which have plugged their amps/preamps to battery psu.
i will test my hiragas with batteries, too
thank you, protos
how big is the improvement?
slightly a bit or definately hearable, even in blind test?
how do you charge your batteries?
what kinda batteries did you use?
did you use capacitors, though?
greets,
Ralf
Optimum reservoir capacitance
ALW (Andy),
You said in an earlier post that;
3x15,000 uF (c3-C8) is in my experience way too large for a 300VA transformer - I'd not go above 10,000u - a single 15,000 absolute tops. The conduction angle of the diodes will be very narrow, and increase noise, not reduce it. Additionally it places greater stress on the transformer / bridge rec due to I2R losses.
Do you have a rule of thumb on the appropriate amount of capacitance to use in relation to the transformer VA rating that you could share?
ALW (Andy),
You said in an earlier post that;
3x15,000 uF (c3-C8) is in my experience way too large for a 300VA transformer - I'd not go above 10,000u - a single 15,000 absolute tops. The conduction angle of the diodes will be very narrow, and increase noise, not reduce it. Additionally it places greater stress on the transformer / bridge rec due to I2R losses.
Do you have a rule of thumb on the appropriate amount of capacitance to use in relation to the transformer VA rating that you could share?
Of course the AC powered gainclone IMHO (In My Happy Opinion !) is excellent sounding anyway and how do you describe in writing the extent of an improvement anyway?
However I would say it is a fundamental improvement.In my dictionary this means that it feels AS IF you have managed to procure a better recorded or masterd CD , even though it is the same one. This means an improvement in almost all aspects of musical reproduction including PRAT, soundstaging, detail etc whatever your preference may be. There are other improvements such as tweaking with caps , diodes etc which are many times not fundamental but are better / different but also very dependent on particular preferences or set-up.
The way I judge an improvement /tweak is by getting into different frames of mind.
One is as some would describe it a Zen state where you just relax and see if the music speaks to you without caring for specifics.
Two is of course putting some well recorded favourite music and
comparing it (A/B)
And three is what Audio Note proposes which is also a good test and that is not to judge a component based on whether it makes a particular CD sound better or worse but to listen for how different it makes Cds sound compared to each other.This means that if a component makes two cds sound more different than another component then it is obviously better since it reveals more details, type of recording methods etc.
So in the end I use a combination of these methods.
As to caps I decided to leave the BGN's which are soldered directly to the chips and are 2x 680uf per rail per chip.
Regarding cost I can say that this PS was "no holds barred"
and in fact cost me more than the gainclone.The big cost is of course the batteries and the less you use the cheaper it will be.
Mine cost about 280-290 Euro just for the batteries.In all the PS cost about 500 Euro.
However for those on a budget and efficient speakers I can say that a basic supply of just two 12v batteries can be enough.I tried this originally and I got plenty of volume on the amp.
Then of course you need a way to charge them and some kind of case which can be as cheap or as expensive as you can handle.
I am using 8 12v 7ah SLA
However I would say it is a fundamental improvement.In my dictionary this means that it feels AS IF you have managed to procure a better recorded or masterd CD , even though it is the same one. This means an improvement in almost all aspects of musical reproduction including PRAT, soundstaging, detail etc whatever your preference may be. There are other improvements such as tweaking with caps , diodes etc which are many times not fundamental but are better / different but also very dependent on particular preferences or set-up.
The way I judge an improvement /tweak is by getting into different frames of mind.
One is as some would describe it a Zen state where you just relax and see if the music speaks to you without caring for specifics.
Two is of course putting some well recorded favourite music and
comparing it (A/B)
And three is what Audio Note proposes which is also a good test and that is not to judge a component based on whether it makes a particular CD sound better or worse but to listen for how different it makes Cds sound compared to each other.This means that if a component makes two cds sound more different than another component then it is obviously better since it reveals more details, type of recording methods etc.
So in the end I use a combination of these methods.
As to caps I decided to leave the BGN's which are soldered directly to the chips and are 2x 680uf per rail per chip.
Regarding cost I can say that this PS was "no holds barred"
and in fact cost me more than the gainclone.The big cost is of course the batteries and the less you use the cheaper it will be.
Mine cost about 280-290 Euro just for the batteries.In all the PS cost about 500 Euro.
However for those on a budget and efficient speakers I can say that a basic supply of just two 12v batteries can be enough.I tried this originally and I got plenty of volume on the amp.
Then of course you need a way to charge them and some kind of case which can be as cheap or as expensive as you can handle.
I am using 8 12v 7ah SLA
Jason
Try matching the reactance of the capacitor at the ripple frequency, to the DC impedance of the secondary for starters.
Then see what you can find out from that, I've not investigated this in detail.
Andy.
Try matching the reactance of the capacitor at the ripple frequency, to the DC impedance of the secondary for starters.
Then see what you can find out from that, I've not investigated this in detail.
Andy.
advantage
i have the advantage, tha my wife works at a car battery store..
i get them to half the price
greets,
Ralf
i have the advantage, tha my wife works at a car battery store..
i get them to half the price
greets,
Ralf
Lucky you.
However huge car batteries may not be convenient if you plan to have a few of them around.At least my living/hi-fi room precludes that type of set up. Can your wife get smaller SLA's ?I guess the smaller motorcycle type could be more convenient.
However huge car batteries may not be convenient if you plan to have a few of them around.At least my living/hi-fi room precludes that type of set up. Can your wife get smaller SLA's ?I guess the smaller motorcycle type could be more convenient.
Warning Safety Hazard
Hi,
Please DO NOT use car or motorcycle lead-acid batteries in your living room.
This type of rechargeable battery can produce a stoechiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygene that is highly explosive. This can blow up your living room and you and your family...
Use these batteries outside, well ventilated!!! Do not overcharge.
2H2+ O2->2 H2O {=Bang=
}
Hi,
Please DO NOT use car or motorcycle lead-acid batteries in your living room.
This type of rechargeable battery can produce a stoechiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygene that is highly explosive. This can blow up your living room and you and your family...
Use these batteries outside, well ventilated!!! Do not overcharge.
2H2+ O2->2 H2O {=Bang=
}Now that my amp is finished, I want to complete my battery PSU. I have used the Amp Chip forum schematic. Does anyone know if when using battery supply, if the 1uF cap is necessary across + and - ?
Thanks,
Vic
Thanks,
Vic
"Does anyone know if when using battery supply, if the 1uF cap is necessary across + and - ?"
Yes!
/Peter
Yes!
/Peter
battery bypass
The 1uf is necessary for stability but I found that a larger good quality cap is necessary for best sound quality. Batteries are not very fast
Of course it a matter of taste. I would be interested to hear what you think if you do a comparison
mike
The 1uf is necessary for stability but I found that a larger good quality cap is necessary for best sound quality. Batteries are not very fast
Of course it a matter of taste. I would be interested to hear what you think if you do a comparison
mikeyes
hi,
i e-maild with someon who knows someone who has build the monster.
he highly recommends the caps. without you can hear a dull "battery sound"
Ralf
hi,
i e-maild with someon who knows someone who has build the monster.
he highly recommends the caps. without you can hear a dull "battery sound"
Ralf
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