Guijs,
Try the Fe103e and you'll be amazed by the detail and clarity of this driver. First go for a simple enclosure, Fostex recommended boxes or the Solo103 by Tony Gee for example are a good start. Make sure you let the driver run in for at least 50 hours before you start to tweak or add notch filters. You will love it and it is affordable as well. Just remember it is not going to play very loud or go very low. Enjoy.
Try the Fe103e and you'll be amazed by the detail and clarity of this driver. First go for a simple enclosure, Fostex recommended boxes or the Solo103 by Tony Gee for example are a good start. Make sure you let the driver run in for at least 50 hours before you start to tweak or add notch filters. You will love it and it is affordable as well. Just remember it is not going to play very loud or go very low. Enjoy.
Scott,
Considering that i'll use the speakers off the ground, I agree the best will be these 4'' Fostex. A subwoofer based on the response of the BLH (after break-in of course) will be in charge of the low bass. But, why the old FE108 enclosure and not the new one? What will be the difference in my case?
DocLorren,
The FE103 can play as good as the FE108ez? Because I don't have problem in spending a litthe more on the 4'' Sigma driver. If I can really have more detail with the Sigma's, I prefer to go with them. But, if I can have the same response with the FE103... I go fot it! HARD DECISION!!!
Considering that i'll use the speakers off the ground, I agree the best will be these 4'' Fostex. A subwoofer based on the response of the BLH (after break-in of course) will be in charge of the low bass. But, why the old FE108 enclosure and not the new one? What will be the difference in my case?
DocLorren,
The FE103 can play as good as the FE108ez? Because I don't have problem in spending a litthe more on the 4'' Sigma driver. If I can really have more detail with the Sigma's, I prefer to go with them. But, if I can have the same response with the FE103... I go fot it! HARD DECISION!!!
Basically yes, to an extent. The 108ESigma has minimal cone excursion, so like most other drivers of this type, needs a horn to produce the bass it cannot generate itself. Less importantly, but still a factor, is that it isn't quite as efficient as its cheaper (but still good) 103E cousin, so it needs more power for a given enclosure type. Horn-loading helps, because a driver mounted in a horn is the most efficient way you can mount one, except an open baffle. And believe me, your English is excellent by the way.
I suggested the old spiral eclosure because you intend placing these speakers off the ground. Now, that basically rules out rearward-firing horns as experimenting with distance from the wall is impossible. A front-firing horn-mouth like the current Fostex factory FE108ESigma enclosure is fine when placed on the ground, but because it uses floor-coupling to help generate bass, sticking in on a shelf will most likely rob you of this. The old spiral enclosure, on the other hand, is side-firing. While this too used floor-coupling to help generate bass, this layout will also activate a different room-mode, and should help by generatring bass from both the rear and side-walls too. It's also quite unusual to see them, so you'll have something a bit different.
Cheers
Scott
I suggested the old spiral eclosure because you intend placing these speakers off the ground. Now, that basically rules out rearward-firing horns as experimenting with distance from the wall is impossible. A front-firing horn-mouth like the current Fostex factory FE108ESigma enclosure is fine when placed on the ground, but because it uses floor-coupling to help generate bass, sticking in on a shelf will most likely rob you of this. The old spiral enclosure, on the other hand, is side-firing. While this too used floor-coupling to help generate bass, this layout will also activate a different room-mode, and should help by generatring bass from both the rear and side-walls too. It's also quite unusual to see them, so you'll have something a bit different.
Cheers
Scott
Hi Guijs,
I finished building the BLH with the FE-108EZ a few months ago. I play with them in a 17 m² room. I think it would be the best decision for you to choose for the 108. In my room the sound is loud enough, with more then enough bass response.
The reason I choose for the 108 was that they have the most linear response. Also the cone is the lightest of them al, so it has a fast response. I really would choose the 108 instead of the 103, because it is not much more money.
I also read a lot of the differend units and I also considered the 168, but different people wrote that also this unit like the 208 really did need a tweeter ( loke at the frequentie response). Also I loked at a few designs with the FE-206(7)E, because I was worried the base response would be to low. After a lot of consideration I decided for the 108, because like you I have a small room and the gole was to have the best quality in bass, mid´s and high´s with a fast response. Because of the small room the speaker won´t have to deliver high sound pressure.
When my speakers arrived and I toke a first look at the cone, I must say I was a little bit worried. The speaker is a very heavy unit and also the outside diameter is 13 cm, so it isn´t a small unit, but the cone instead is very small. Also my friends thought I was nuts building a that large enclosure for such a small unit. But when my project was finished they couldn´t ( like myself) the amound of sound coming out of such a small unit.
I play with a very 3,5 Watt tube amplifier te Aurexx Crystel 1. The bass is very detailed and fast with enough energy. You can´t believe the amount of sound coming out of the horn´s mouth. It really bang´s loud when you stick your head into the mouth! The mid´s are very open and sound very open and realistic. The high´s are very detailed and I hear every little detail in the music. Comparing with other speakers with good tweeters ( I also have Dynaudio speakers with the Esotec tweeters) I don´t miss a thing. The only disadvantedge of not having a tweeter is the very small sweetpot. Meanig you only will have one seat were the music sound good. Outside the sweetspot the high frequenties will drop rapidly.
About placing the speakers upside down, I think the BLH with the 108 also would be the best choiche, because the horn´s mouth is in the middle and ( I think) it less needs the ground coupling then a design with the horns mouth at the bottem.
If jou have any questions about building the enslosure let me know. I have one importend thing about building them, and that is that you really have to use birch ply wood and not mdf ore other material. You will find a lot of articles about it. With mdf the speaker will sound dead. The horn is like an piano ore a gitar, the enclosure will have to ampifie the sound, not absorbe it.
Succes,
Hi-man
I finished building the BLH with the FE-108EZ a few months ago. I play with them in a 17 m² room. I think it would be the best decision for you to choose for the 108. In my room the sound is loud enough, with more then enough bass response.
The reason I choose for the 108 was that they have the most linear response. Also the cone is the lightest of them al, so it has a fast response. I really would choose the 108 instead of the 103, because it is not much more money.
I also read a lot of the differend units and I also considered the 168, but different people wrote that also this unit like the 208 really did need a tweeter ( loke at the frequentie response). Also I loked at a few designs with the FE-206(7)E, because I was worried the base response would be to low. After a lot of consideration I decided for the 108, because like you I have a small room and the gole was to have the best quality in bass, mid´s and high´s with a fast response. Because of the small room the speaker won´t have to deliver high sound pressure.
When my speakers arrived and I toke a first look at the cone, I must say I was a little bit worried. The speaker is a very heavy unit and also the outside diameter is 13 cm, so it isn´t a small unit, but the cone instead is very small. Also my friends thought I was nuts building a that large enclosure for such a small unit. But when my project was finished they couldn´t ( like myself) the amound of sound coming out of such a small unit.
I play with a very 3,5 Watt tube amplifier te Aurexx Crystel 1. The bass is very detailed and fast with enough energy. You can´t believe the amount of sound coming out of the horn´s mouth. It really bang´s loud when you stick your head into the mouth! The mid´s are very open and sound very open and realistic. The high´s are very detailed and I hear every little detail in the music. Comparing with other speakers with good tweeters ( I also have Dynaudio speakers with the Esotec tweeters) I don´t miss a thing. The only disadvantedge of not having a tweeter is the very small sweetpot. Meanig you only will have one seat were the music sound good. Outside the sweetspot the high frequenties will drop rapidly.
About placing the speakers upside down, I think the BLH with the 108 also would be the best choiche, because the horn´s mouth is in the middle and ( I think) it less needs the ground coupling then a design with the horns mouth at the bottem.
If jou have any questions about building the enslosure let me know. I have one importend thing about building them, and that is that you really have to use birch ply wood and not mdf ore other material. You will find a lot of articles about it. With mdf the speaker will sound dead. The horn is like an piano ore a gitar, the enclosure will have to ampifie the sound, not absorbe it.
Succes,
Hi-man
Attachments
First, thanks very much for all the help guys! I'm really glad!
I'll go with the FE180ez!
Scott,
I'm going to build both enclosures, and hear what sounds better. What Alexander said makes a lot of sense, because the mouth is in the middle right? Thanks for the english
Alexander,
Man, thanks for the pictures you sent and for the topic reply! I think now I know everything I need. You have a 3,5w tube amplifier? I have a friend, that uses a DIY 2,5w tube amplifier, with a BLH project using a old 6,5'' B&W Matrix midbass and a Foster Ribbon tweeter. It's a very new project and I still didn't heard, but people say that is awesome, excelent BASS, image, depht, etc....
About the wood, I was going to use "naval" plywood BTW, because all the pictures I saw, people was using it! And i'm building a TL subwoofer (for my HT) at the moment, using NHT 12'' subwoofer. I'm using 25mm Plywood.
I think that is it. FE108ez is the one. Now i'm gonna start to save money for the amplifier/pre and a CD/SACD player .
Thanks
I'll go with the FE180ez!
Scott,
I'm going to build both enclosures, and hear what sounds better. What Alexander said makes a lot of sense, because the mouth is in the middle right? Thanks for the english
Alexander,
Man, thanks for the pictures you sent and for the topic reply! I think now I know everything I need. You have a 3,5w tube amplifier? I have a friend, that uses a DIY 2,5w tube amplifier, with a BLH project using a old 6,5'' B&W Matrix midbass and a Foster Ribbon tweeter. It's a very new project and I still didn't heard, but people say that is awesome, excelent BASS, image, depht, etc....
About the wood, I was going to use "naval" plywood BTW, because all the pictures I saw, people was using it! And i'm building a TL subwoofer (for my HT) at the moment, using NHT 12'' subwoofer. I'm using 25mm Plywood.
I think that is it. FE108ez is the one. Now i'm gonna start to save money for the amplifier/pre and a CD/SACD player
.Thanks
Guijs,
The reason I suggested the Fe103 in something like the Solo103 enclosure is that it is a relatively cheap and almost foolproof way to build your first set of speakers. If you, however, are already comfortable with woodworking and don't mind spending a few more bucks on your drivers then go ahead and build yourself a nice BLH with the 108EZ.
Guess what kind of speakers I am currently using?
Exactly, Buschhorns Mk2 with Fe108EZ without notch and without damping in the mouth. It is a big step up from the Solo103 but costs a llittle more in $$ and the amount of time it takes you to build it.
Ps. I recently experimented a bit with removing damping wool from the compression chamber. Don't do that. The sound gets sharp and the upper mids shout your ears off. Oh well, do experiment a bit and find out yourself with your upcoming project, it is all part of the fun.
The reason I suggested the Fe103 in something like the Solo103 enclosure is that it is a relatively cheap and almost foolproof way to build your first set of speakers. If you, however, are already comfortable with woodworking and don't mind spending a few more bucks on your drivers then go ahead and build yourself a nice BLH with the 108EZ.
Guess what kind of speakers I am currently using?
Exactly, Buschhorns Mk2 with Fe108EZ without notch and without damping in the mouth. It is a big step up from the Solo103 but costs a llittle more in $$ and the amount of time it takes you to build it.
Ps. I recently experimented a bit with removing damping wool from the compression chamber. Don't do that. The sound gets sharp and the upper mids shout your ears off. Oh well, do experiment a bit and find out yourself with your upcoming project, it is all part of the fun.
Sure, the big fun will be trying these different enclosures! I already have some experience with woodworking...
So we have the Fostex recomended enclosure, the Old Fostex enc. , and what is this Buschhornd mkII?
To break-in the speakers before building the enclosure, what type of signal shoul I use? I used 25hz signal with commom speakers, but the Fostex have really low excursion... Pink noise will be best? How many hours?
Thanks
So we have the Fostex recomended enclosure, the Old Fostex enc. , and what is this Buschhornd mkII?
To break-in the speakers before building the enclosure, what type of signal shoul I use? I used 25hz signal with commom speakers, but the Fostex have really low excursion... Pink noise will be best? How many hours?
Thanks
Never heard of the Buschhorns?
Do a little Googling my friend!
Although some knowledgeable people from this forum may disagree, I would just let the drivers break in with your favorite music at normal listening levels. I cannot think of a 'premium' method to break in this driver and it has certainly never been tested during a randomized controlled double-blind trial...
It is however amazing to hear the driver go from tinny (barely bettering telephone quality) to full color in a few hours. And then it takes another hundred hours for all the superb tiny&shiny details to show up.
Do a little Googling my friend!
Although some knowledgeable people from this forum may disagree, I would just let the drivers break in with your favorite music at normal listening levels. I cannot think of a 'premium' method to break in this driver and it has certainly never been tested during a randomized controlled double-blind trial...
It is however amazing to hear the driver go from tinny (barely bettering telephone quality) to full color in a few hours. And then it takes another hundred hours for all the superb tiny&shiny details to show up.
Hi,
You won't need any crossover. You can indeed just hook the driver up your amplefier.
About the dampingmaterial. I just used damping material in the mouth according to the original plans. I used 6 cm thick acoustic foam "pritex". I don't know how you call it.
I haven't ( like the design) used any form of damping behind the speaker. I know another owner, who had put some wool behind the driver. He didn't notice any differance at all. I think because the compressionchamber is very small.
Another tip with building the enclosure is replacing the 6 parts with number 29, by 2 parts of 170x60 mm. I asked around what the purpose was of the 6 parts, but nobody had any idee. The only reason I can think of that the part won't fit the saw plan. In the designs with the 168 and 298 it are also 2 parts and not 6. In the beginning I thougt it were loose parts that you can take out to enlarge the compresion chamber, but in the more detailed plans that come with the driver, you can clearly see the parts have to be gluded for the strenged of the construction. When I have some more time I will mail you the plans. I hope your Japanese is good! Don't worry the plans contains 3D pictures and pictures in what order you must constuct the enclosure.
Alexander
You won't need any crossover. You can indeed just hook the driver up your amplefier.
About the dampingmaterial. I just used damping material in the mouth according to the original plans. I used 6 cm thick acoustic foam "pritex". I don't know how you call it.
I haven't ( like the design) used any form of damping behind the speaker. I know another owner, who had put some wool behind the driver. He didn't notice any differance at all. I think because the compressionchamber is very small.
Another tip with building the enclosure is replacing the 6 parts with number 29, by 2 parts of 170x60 mm. I asked around what the purpose was of the 6 parts, but nobody had any idee. The only reason I can think of that the part won't fit the saw plan. In the designs with the 168 and 298 it are also 2 parts and not 6. In the beginning I thougt it were loose parts that you can take out to enlarge the compresion chamber, but in the more detailed plans that come with the driver, you can clearly see the parts have to be gluded for the strenged of the construction. When I have some more time I will mail you the plans. I hope your Japanese is good! Don't worry the plans contains 3D pictures and pictures in what order you must constuct the enclosure.
Alexander
Hi Alexander,
It's very strange, this 6 "29" pieces... they don't fit in both side walls, there is some space there! Did you cut the pieces with a circular saw? It will take a long time to cut all these pieces with the circular saw... I have a friend that has a laser cut machine on his job, probably I'll cut there! The pieces will be perfect!
Do you think that the enclosure needs a marble or granite piece on the bottom? A saw some enclosures with this...
Thanks for the plans! It will really help.
Guilherme
It's very strange, this 6 "29" pieces... they don't fit in both side walls, there is some space there! Did you cut the pieces with a circular saw? It will take a long time to cut all these pieces with the circular saw... I have a friend that has a laser cut machine on his job, probably I'll cut there! The pieces will be perfect!
Do you think that the enclosure needs a marble or granite piece on the bottom? A saw some enclosures with this...
Thanks for the plans! It will really help.
Guilherme
The Buschorn was designed for use in corners, so it's relatively used to being close to walls. By the way, there's a MK3 Bushorn lurking around now. Dave has talked me into doubling a pair of these things (all in the name of experimentation of course) with FE103Es, so it's going to be, shall we say, an interesting project!
However, your drawing indicates it's also going to be somewhat enclosed around the sides too. On that basis, I'd go with the current Fostex factory design as it's front loaded. It doesn't look like you have room either for the old spiral type (pity).
Scott
However, your drawing indicates it's also going to be somewhat enclosed around the sides too. On that basis, I'd go with the current Fostex factory design as it's front loaded. It doesn't look like you have room either for the old spiral type (pity).
Scott
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