Audiophile Ethernet Switch

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analog_sa

analog_sa

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Joined 2002
billshurv said:
So why not mention that as quick and easy #1?
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Hard to say whether avoiding a switch is quick and easy, or even good.

In my setup, the server is about 15m and 2 switches away from the dac. This is hardly unusual.

Even if a switch is avoided, the PS noise considerations remain and it would seem harder to supply clean power to the ethernet card inside a power hungry server compared to a switch which only draws a few hundred mA.
 
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Faboz

Member
Joined 2018
Ryelands said:
Predictably, the usual suspects have talked the usual nonsense in the usual haughty manner but seem unaware of the fairly obvious engineering reasons why you're not talking nonsense. (If some of your naysayers had bothered to visit the AQVOX web site, they might have made fewer damn-fool points. I stress the "might".)

However, I've spent a deal of time on the topic over the last year or so and can confirm that "tweaking" a switch can make for significant differences in SQ if done right. (For the record, I'm linking a music "server" to an endpoint with no Internet connection.)

Quick and easy tweaks include:

1. Your AQVOX switch is 10/100/1000 MB/sec; try running it at 100 or, even better, 10 MB/sec. (After all, it's not expensive to try . . .)

2. Running at 10/100MB/sec means that:

* You need only two pairs, not four, in your LAN cable. (Gigabit needs all four.) Removing the redundant pairs (4&5, 7&8 - keep 1&2, 3&6) makes for a surprising SQ difference. First, try a length of industrial-grade LAN cable (I use Excel CAT6 UTP as it's easy to get locally) and snip out the redundant pairs. If that works, try replacing the stock connectors with the likes of Telegartners. What matters is less whether the cable is CAT 6, CAT 8 or even CAT1024 and more how well the pairs are twisted and thus how well the all-important impedance spec is met.

Compare a length cut from an Excel cable with one from a typical piece of Amazonic crap to see what I mean - I'd wager that the Excel will typically outperform any cheapo CAT-whatever. There's a good explanation of this on Meicord's web site. See also "Is Your Cat 6 Cable a Dog?" on the Blue Jeans site. Measurements, even.

* You can get surprisingly good results from cheapo 10/100MB/sec switches. I use Zyxels but upgrade the on-board Vregs to an LT3045 device and drive them with Ciunas Audio LiFePO4 battery PSUs.

I've tried mid-priced LAN-audio-exotic cables (Meicord, Viablue); though both are better than stock, neither matches a DIY'd Excel/Telegartner at a fraction of the cost.

Is that all? No, but it's a start.

Dave
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Thank you Dave, This is clear. In fact the Aqvox belong to a friend and he never wanted to let the AQVOX at home:D
So what I’m looking for is the kind of advice you just gave on how to improve things by tweaking/upgrading the switch.
How big deal is to replace the Vreg by LT3045 device?

Thanks

Faboz

PS: I dont care about the sarcastic comments they just don’t bring any added value.
 
dhaen

dhaen

Ex-Moderator
Joined 2002
keystrobe.co.uk/
Plenty can go wrong with a LAN. Sending your audio data over the same network as all the other stuff can cause problems. Buffers are not limitless and the time synchronisation of ALSA sometimes slips.
These are not audio domain problems and cannot be improved by audio tweaking methods. As previously stated, network analysis is the way to ensure that things are working as well as they can. There are free tools! Go google.
 
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cbdb

Member
Joined 2008
analog_sa said:
Thanks for the pic. The inside looks very standard and certainly not bristling with audiophile parts. My guess is they probably listened through a pile of cheap switches and selected what sounded best. There is of course a chance the firmware has been tweaked.

A LPS and decent ethernet wire made a huge difference in my case. It is probably desirable to also have only essential audio stuff plugged in.

But seeing how cheap switches are, there is just no excuse not to try tweaking one: clock, caps, chokes, shielding.

Nice thread. Keeping fingers crossed the trolls won't find it :)
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Fell of my chair laughing, sa never fails to entertain. Your switch works or it doesnt thats it, but you can waste all the time and money you want.
 
C

cbdb

Member
Joined 2008
Dimdim said:
It may appear to fly in the face of logic, but different ethernet cables do make audible changes in SQ.

The reason is the same reason that causes different power supplies or audio distributions to change the sound of network streamers: Noise signature.

Ethernet cables do transmit data but in order to do that they also transmit EMI/RFI noise. This noise eventually finds its way into our dacs.

Different cables make for different filtering of this noise. It is that simple.

The same applies for active networking devices (switches, routers, etc). The more quiet their power supplies and circuits, the less noise they emit.
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More nonsense:RFI effects only audio data. Theres huge financial institutions with thousands of drops from server room to computers over ethernet cables some of wich are a 100 meters long in cable trays with 100s of other cables, carrying all types of signals, includinf RF. How much of data gets changed? Zero. Millions of transactions and not 1 penny out of place. Show me were I get one of these data changer cables, I want to try to shift a few decimal places in my online banking.
 
scott wurcer

scott wurcer

R.I.P
Joined 2004
cbdb said:
Fell of my chair laughing, sa never fails to entertain. Your switch works or it doesnt thats it, but you can waste all the time and money you want.
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I've done a small amount of TCP-IP programming, as DF96 says there are messaging protocols that do not guarantee quality of service. I have no idea why any audio streaming device would use them. This boils down to the two bit perfect files that sound "dramatically" different.

"Honey what did you do to the stereo", " I de-fragmented the server".
 
D

Dimdim

Member
Joined 2008
cbdb said:
More nonsense:RFI effects only audio data. Theres huge financial institutions with thousands of drops from server room to computers over ethernet cables some of wich are a 100 meters long in cable trays with 100s of other cables, carrying all types of signals, includinf RF. How much of data gets changed? Zero. Millions of transactions and not 1 penny out of place. Show me were I get one of these data changer cables, I want to try to shift a few decimal places in my online banking.
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It looks like you completely missed the point of my post.

I never said that the actual "audio data" changed.

The noise (analog phenomenon) that entered the system did.
 
R

Ryelands

Member
Joined 2007
Faboz said:
How big deal is to replace the Vreg by LT3045 device?
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Not all switches are amenable but the likes of the Zyxel ES105 have a 3v3 Vreg near the input which makes it easy provided you're reasonably competent at soldering. The pic is of an AckoLab board in one of my Zyxels.

HTH

D
 

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T

Tromperie

Banned
Joined 2015
Wow, my digital stream comes from a NAS through two switches and I can't hear the difference from when it was connected directly to the RPi. (Really, the only useful purpose for such threads is to add to the, already expansive, ignore list, several of which posters are already there for their inanity elsewhere.)
 
jan.didden

jan.didden

AX tech editor
Joined 2002
linearaudio.net
Paid Member
Tromperie said:
I can't hear the difference from when it was connected directly to the RPi.
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Never say that here! In a few minutes, a highly intelligent person will point out that this proves you are deaf and/or need new batteries in your hearing aid ;-)

Tromperie said:
Really, the only useful purpose for such threads is to add to the, already expansive, ignore list, several of which posters are already there for their inanity elsewhere.
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I wonder how large that list can be. Mine has already grown to over a dozen!

Jan
 
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