Might seem that way from the scketch of a note. It is an 'educated' guess based on the behaviour of the change is a lot like notch behaviour when tuning/phasing the notch or changing freq etc. . But, really just telling the difference seen is what a user would see and make assumption about the DUT data results. Different (very good) instruments with different results. Not saying why there are differences but they are Not showing the same levels. Now what would we think if we had very good ac/dc voltmeters this way?
Regarding the introduction of a second tone near the one being observed.... we went over that already... I havent seen the 725 like multiple tones... seems to confuse it.
My point is the 2H will be affected the most and that is also where i measurement the greatest differences as well.
The assumption I do make for now is that the 725 is more accurate in presenting the true level of the 2H just because it fits my model of reality. Granted its complex but so far the gang who did the 725 didnt miss much.
Thx-RNMarsh
Regarding the introduction of a second tone near the one being observed.... we went over that already... I havent seen the 725 like multiple tones... seems to confuse it.
My point is the 2H will be affected the most and that is also where i measurement the greatest differences as well.
The assumption I do make for now is that the 725 is more accurate in presenting the true level of the 2H just because it fits my model of reality. Granted its complex but so far the gang who did the 725 didnt miss much.
Thx-RNMarsh
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I would look for alternate ways that come from first principles- Reference Voltage- KV divider Thermal converter- a day or two of tedium.
The biggest hazard we all have with audio is our internal model. While it makes the process easier it can make seeing important details harder.
I have seen the same 2nd Harmonic with the pair I have and the next day the 2nd harmonic can be -130dB or more. I'm really not sure what its coming from or if its the generator or the analyzer.
View attachment 366032
View attachment 366033
Well between these two instruments it is consistant (so far?).
I havent seen anything with the 2722 because i cant get it into high rez mode. Drivers dont open. Used XT PC for these but cant do 2722 FFT and i7 PC yet. Then, I will be able to compare the A-P 2722 with these two and see what, if anything, is different. The WIN 8 is really goofy to use.
I seriously doubt if I will be able to do anything about any of this.... just curious to know how they all respond and what kinds of variations there will be.
Thx-RM
View attachment 366033
Well between these two instruments it is consistant (so far?).
I havent seen anything with the 2722 because i cant get it into high rez mode. Drivers dont open. Used XT PC for these but cant do 2722 FFT and i7 PC yet. Then, I will be able to compare the A-P 2722 with these two and see what, if anything, is different. The WIN 8 is really goofy to use.
I seriously doubt if I will be able to do anything about any of this.... just curious to know how they all respond and what kinds of variations there will be.
Thx-RM
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I meant what would you think of the various voltmeter brands giving different readings? I would want to find out which one was most accurate and use that one.
What I have seen so far which could contribute to the change is drift. Drift of the osc freq and drift of the notch/null circuits away from one another. And, at these levels it doent take much. That freq drift causes phase changes enough to cancel (wont add... its on the wrong side of the phase shifting).
And the analyzer and generator and notch are Not locked into one another. maybe it is with some all-in-One units (A-P?) but seperate boxes like this is asking for trouble.
Thx-RM
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I am using Win7 with my SYS2722. I have WIN8 on my Samsung Laptop and am actually beginning to like it. I'll load the AP software on it and see if i can get it to work.
Can you get it to work in "Demo Mode" or is it a communications issue. By the way, demo mode is valuable to have on another PC to pull up data files.
They all (including the AP) have autotune and autonull. The implementations are different but they need it to keep the notch tuned. Similar to the AGC circuit. They do not use the generator to tune the analyzer. The circuits track the drifts automatically. I think the issues are different.
hello,
It is kinda like comparing two seven digit volt meters and discovering at the seventh digit they are off by 2 counts, isnt it?
They might be different...of course, It just Looks as if it is related in this way. Mainly I am thinking about the low end and a bundle of parts to do the various functions which are not auto-nulled. I have wished someone reading these things would get into the auto-null design so we could end up with all the peices working well together and giving the $$$ makers a run for the money more than ever before.
-RM
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I just setup and checked my 725a with Victor's oscillator. The 2nd harmonic measures -130 dB, the 3rd measures -150 dB. I clearly need to figure out what to tweak in the 590AR since its not at this level. It will probably require a reverse engineering task since documentation does not exist.
yes, the demo works. I think using two new software programs at the same time isnt helpful, either. I know nothing about WIN8. cant find what I am looking for and do not want to read the million page manual... but might have to.
Thanks - if you can help.
-Richard
Well guess what? A-P tech support says with WIN 8, the APIB software doesnt work 'for some reason'. The drivers dont load. Just what I found and was going to ask them how to make it load.
BUT... if you use the ATS2 drivers, it will work with WIN8/2722. They didnt cross their heart and hope to die if it didnt work, either. But, I think this will work and might be able to have some tests up to show this weekend.
"Go to the A-P site and to Download; ATS2; Software; ATS ver 1.60 Run it and you should be good to go with the 2722."
Thx-RNMarsh
BUT... if you use the ATS2 drivers, it will work with WIN8/2722. They didnt cross their heart and hope to die if it didnt work, either. But, I think this will work and might be able to have some tests up to show this weekend.
"Go to the A-P site and to Download; ATS2; Software; ATS ver 1.60 Run it and you should be good to go with the 2722."
Thx-RNMarsh
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I am still working on it.... have to find those drivers --- but doing good things in several areas and they all have to take their turn. be back when i get back to this and its working and I can start to show some things with the A-P. The WIN8 stuff has held me up... just trying to find things is a mystery sometimes.
Thx-RNMarsh
Thx-RNMarsh
Ok. Where and which APIB/USB drivers?
cant use the ones for the 2722... they dont work. Need the ATS (1 or is it 2?) or ?
How to attach/run them with the rest of the software... if there are any other surprises or tricks to make it communicate.
-RNM
cant use the ones for the 2722... they dont work. Need the ATS (1 or is it 2?) or ?
How to attach/run them with the rest of the software... if there are any other surprises or tricks to make it communicate.
-RNM
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Finally... got the correct drivers to run with the USB/APIB interface to the Win8/USB3.0 portable computer. And, next I have to install the optional IM hardware.
But, first playing with it to see whats new compared to my old SYS One with DSP. The GUI has same look and operation with a few more bells and whistles.
Checking its accuracy below -100dB against other analyzers/generators will be first order of the day.
Thx-RNMarsh
But, first playing with it to see whats new compared to my old SYS One with DSP. The GUI has same look and operation with a few more bells and whistles.
Checking its accuracy below -100dB against other analyzers/generators will be first order of the day.
Thx-RNMarsh
I am also interested to do whole system tests -- using signal sourced via CD disk from A-P. And, using multi-tones for system tests... from CD to speaker. Instead of only individual equipment tests.
Thx-RNMarsh
When do you think you will begin your tests on the QA400 and sound cards?
I'm interested in the EMU stuff.
I'm interested in the EMU stuff.
Not sure... but soon. Got to get caught up on some last minute - end of summer stuff.
-RM
Summer status -
Recall, I was wondering if we didnt need a high speed Sample and Hold (S/H) to do detailed analysis on transient signals and other non-sinewave signals [to see how they compare in tests]. Well this model A-P has a built in 80MHz S/H 🙂
I cant quit afford it but had to take advantage of good deals when they present themselves. It has every bell and whistle i can ever imagine using or needing. It can help in a lot of areas.... including the comparison with soundcards etc. But in some ideas I want to explore regarding non-sinewave vs sinewave to see if/how power amps behave differently with different stimuli. Esp stimili that more resembles music transients.
Right now, I am on page 268 of 590 pages of the manual -- will be getting familiar with it for the rest of the summer. Still have to install the option IM boards.
The USB interface software is still flakey with WIN 8... it works... sort of... most of the time. Error messages and hangups occassionally. Weird stuff which I assume will get worked out for USB 3.0/Win8 sooner or later. If I had paid full retail price for the machine, i'd really be pissed, though.
Thx-RNMarsh
Recall, I was wondering if we didnt need a high speed Sample and Hold (S/H) to do detailed analysis on transient signals and other non-sinewave signals [to see how they compare in tests]. Well this model A-P has a built in 80MHz S/H 🙂
I cant quit afford it but had to take advantage of good deals when they present themselves. It has every bell and whistle i can ever imagine using or needing. It can help in a lot of areas.... including the comparison with soundcards etc. But in some ideas I want to explore regarding non-sinewave vs sinewave to see if/how power amps behave differently with different stimuli. Esp stimili that more resembles music transients.
Right now, I am on page 268 of 590 pages of the manual -- will be getting familiar with it for the rest of the summer. Still have to install the option IM boards.
The USB interface software is still flakey with WIN 8... it works... sort of... most of the time. Error messages and hangups occassionally. Weird stuff which I assume will get worked out for USB 3.0/Win8 sooner or later. If I had paid full retail price for the machine, i'd really be pissed, though.
Thx-RNMarsh
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