Hi Folks,
Ive been playing with the Ideas of building a pair of 12" full-range speakers with Audio Nirvana drivers and plans. I have zero experience with full-range drivers.
I currently run a 25wpc DIY tube amp into a pair of Dalquist DQ18s . My system sounds pretty great at the moment, I just think it can sound even better with a different speaker setup. The full range 12-inch speakers look the way to go if they sound as good as they seem to suggest.
ANyone have any thoughts here or opinions? I'd love to hear.
Thanks
Tim
Ive been playing with the Ideas of building a pair of 12" full-range speakers with Audio Nirvana drivers and plans. I have zero experience with full-range drivers.
I currently run a 25wpc DIY tube amp into a pair of Dalquist DQ18s . My system sounds pretty great at the moment, I just think it can sound even better with a different speaker setup. The full range 12-inch speakers look the way to go if they sound as good as they seem to suggest.
ANyone have any thoughts here or opinions? I'd love to hear.
Thanks
Tim
I have heard a number of AN drivers, most of them performed poorly. One of them had potential but the entry price was too high, better drivers can be had cheaper.
My personal opion is that the sweet spot with FR drivers tends to be 4-5”.
They would certainly be different than your Dalquists.
And if you go ahead, keep in mind that David DIcks knows noting of proper box design.
Some people seem to really like theirs.
dave
My personal opion is that the sweet spot with FR drivers tends to be 4-5”.
They would certainly be different than your Dalquists.
And if you go ahead, keep in mind that David DIcks knows noting of proper box design.
Some people seem to really like theirs.
dave
Asking of one driver to cover 20-20 000 Hz range is a very, very tall order. The smaller the driver the better it covers the high range, the larger the better the bass as a general trend. I have tried fullrange drivers 4" 5" 6.5" 8" and 10". And in my opinion 4" is way to little bass exept for nearfield monitors/computer desk speakers. The 10" I tried was to weak in the high range. My sweet spot was a Philips 6.5 that was to good for such a budget driver. 5" in a small room and 8" for large rooms or really loud music (for full range drivers)
I'm not really concerned about anything, one way or the other just looking for a simple but superior speaker design. Ive spent a couple of years playing with this and I can't find anything that presents some sort of cookie-cutter plan. That's what intrigued me about the Audio Nirvana full-range speakers. He really presents those as the answer to any first-time speaker builder,
What I wanted originally was to build a 2 way system that would outperform Dalquists. I could not find any clear cookie-cutter design ( I realize now this is impossible) so, I spent weeks going over specs on parts express and madisound, playing with various design software trying to get something that was 91db or better and covered low to high as flat as possible. It made me frustrated as hell ( and I developed respect for the art of speaker design) ... the audio nirvana full-range setup really seemed the sollution.
SO OK ... now this WAW concept sounds perfect. I'd love to see some designs all I can find is a lot of discussions. if you have any links please share.
All this said, I love my dalquists, listeing now and they are great... its just the DIY guy in me is itching to build speakers.
Thank you
73
Tim
Do yourself a favour and browse the full range section. There are many much superior designs that use better/cheaper drivers. Lots & lots of them. Lots of free (or paid) plans. Even flat-paks for some.
You have to remember the saying “it is hard to just have 1 cookie”. Once you get going, you will learn something from the first build, and it is very likely you will quickly be on to the next one. So spending less on the early ones is not a bad idea… and the ANs are not cheap.
But do avoid analysis paralysis, pick something and build it.
These scratch the surface
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-mark-audio-fostex-tb-dayton-seas-etc.323051/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-frugel-horn-family.277557/
https://frugal-horn.com/
dave
You have to remember the saying “it is hard to just have 1 cookie”. Once you get going, you will learn something from the first build, and it is very likely you will quickly be on to the next one. So spending less on the early ones is not a bad idea… and the ANs are not cheap.
But do avoid analysis paralysis, pick something and build it.
These scratch the surface
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-mark-audio-fostex-tb-dayton-seas-etc.323051/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-frugel-horn-family.277557/
https://frugal-horn.com/
dave
Outperform can mean a lot of things... One very simple idea is to move the woofer- tweeter crossover point to a very different frequency value than what is used in a typical dome tweeter two way. Such a design's going to sound different compared to your DQ18s.
It's also the idea behind "WAW" which is a two-way; the "Wideband" part refers to the "full range" driver which is crossed lower than the tweeter in the DQ18s. The "Woofer-Assisted" part takes the bass duty off the full range driver, which is still producing most of the music you'll hear.
Why relieve the bass duty from the full range driver? If the best sounding ones are only 4-5", those cones are going to be really moving to make appreciable bass. That movement is going to mess with (via IM distortion) the rest of the sound it's trying to reproduce. So eliminate it and send that duty to a bigger driver.
Another aspect to appreciate in WAW, is because one driver is making most of the music, the phase will remain coherent through more of the sound. (Some listeners - like me - believe they can hear the effects of the crossover when its in the kHz range, but not so much when it's in the 100's of Hz) Of course, you'll want to pick a really good full-range driver because of this.
I'm a fan of woofer assisted full-range on OB. I'll trade the other problems OB presents for that low, low xover value and no box enveloping the full range driver. There's many internal construction tricks to fix the box part and they're intricate from what I've seen. Good luck with your choosing and let us know what appeals to you!
Key here is the centre-to-centre spacing of the drivers. If you XO below that the drivers seentially become coincident, they act as one unit.
dave
Hey, so I'm very interested in these WAW designs. I had thought about doing a 2 way with the below drivers, crossed at around 3k. My thinking was a simple box for the woofer, then to mount the tweeter on top to allow for time alignment adjustment
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DSA270-8-10-Designer-Series-Aluminum-Cone-Woofer-295-532
https://www.parts-express.com/Aurum-Cantus-G2-Ribbon-Tweeter-276-402
This is where I was before findng the Audio Nirvana speakers
any tHoughts are very appriciated?
T
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DSA270-8-10-Designer-Series-Aluminum-Cone-Woofer-295-532
https://www.parts-express.com/Aurum-Cantus-G2-Ribbon-Tweeter-276-402
This is where I was before findng the Audio Nirvana speakers
any tHoughts are very appriciated?
T
Try a design that crosses 10x lower. I'm sure the above components could result in a fine sounding speaker, but it's flavor will be similar to what you already have; yet another chocolate chip cookie.
Wideband means the driver's low end is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 hundred hertz, up to 20k; versus 3k to 20kHz.
The ANs try to take that all the way down into the deep bass region of the audible spectrum. As noted, it's a difficult trick to pull off for a single driver. Better to split the task somewhere in the 100 - 800Hz range. That'll get a different flavor sounding speaker, for lack of better terminology; peanut butter cookie. You want to try / taste something different this time, right?
I have a set of speakers with a 15" full range driver and I still cross it above 100Hz to an additional 18" bass driver. The 15"s cone has no visible movement at all, from the bass notes. Perhaps a little extreme, but it's...why were here ;') If I wanted another chocolate chip cookie, I'd be shopping Crutchfield, looking at Klipsch, Polk and Wharfdale bookshelfs or towers.
That's not waw. You do not seem to grasp the concept. Its about small fullrange assisted by the woofer.
There are many threads about waw. Somehow search function is not your friend.
Here is one:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/
Here is one:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/
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Hi Tim,
Perhaps I’m a contrarian but I’ve been very happy with a large single driver
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/a-bigun-the-audio-nirvana-super-15.217893/page-27
I’ve been underwhelmed by small full range drivers (4”) and don’t subscribe to their being optimal unless going two-way, which is a bunch of extra work.
If you want 12” rather than 15” I would expect the AN Super 12” Ferrite to be the best 2nd choice after the 15” that I used. I don’t think the box needs to be as large as the one I built either. And I don‘t think the other AN drivers will be nearly as good.
Nevertheless, accepting some limitations, the MA 10.3 (or paper version) in an adequately sized BR box can be a smaller but decent alternative. I built a stereo pair.
Perhaps I’m a contrarian but I’ve been very happy with a large single driver
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/a-bigun-the-audio-nirvana-super-15.217893/page-27
I’ve been underwhelmed by small full range drivers (4”) and don’t subscribe to their being optimal unless going two-way, which is a bunch of extra work.
If you want 12” rather than 15” I would expect the AN Super 12” Ferrite to be the best 2nd choice after the 15” that I used. I don’t think the box needs to be as large as the one I built either. And I don‘t think the other AN drivers will be nearly as good.
Nevertheless, accepting some limitations, the MA 10.3 (or paper version) in an adequately sized BR box can be a smaller but decent alternative. I built a stereo pair.
OK ,,, so now I'm looking at these "Lil Audio" speakers ,,,, looks really cool,
Following the concept, What about an 8-inch full range, crossed at say 500hz with another 8-inch bass-specific woofer? what would a cabinet for that look like, I see a bunch of open baffle setups, is it that the woofer goes in a BR box and the full range is mounted above as open? I see a lot of speakers in the links, but mostly small full-range speakers with large woofers, nothing that pairs like-sized large drivers. Remember I;m new here and don't entirely understand the concept, search works fine, but I see a lot of technical conversations and not much basic stuff.
Thanks fo the help
T
Following the concept, What about an 8-inch full range, crossed at say 500hz with another 8-inch bass-specific woofer? what would a cabinet for that look like, I see a bunch of open baffle setups, is it that the woofer goes in a BR box and the full range is mounted above as open? I see a lot of speakers in the links, but mostly small full-range speakers with large woofers, nothing that pairs like-sized large drivers. Remember I;m new here and don't entirely understand the concept, search works fine, but I see a lot of technical conversations and not much basic stuff.
Thanks fo the help
T
I'd second this suggestion for something different from what you're currently listening to. Just follow the recipe!
I built these with a Fostex FE85 for the wideband. I love 'em!!! highly recommended. You can use any number of fullrange drivers.