Mr. Curl is correct. Remember that "Vinyl" is short for polyvinylchloride (PVC). Not all the chloride is permanently bound in the polmer, so free radical chlorine is slowly released over time by the PVC. There is a very high thermodynamic drive for chlorine and copper to react forming cupric chloride which has a distinctive green color. Essentially the PVC directly causes aggressive surface corrosion of the copper wire.
Cheers, Terry
Cheers, Terry
really - this is very interesting - I did conclude PVC was worst of the worst many years ago but I never realised it reacted directly like that.
so I should not blame the garage !
🙂
so I should not blame the garage !
🙂
mikelm said:RDF - what's the post like from the thermionic past to the mid-west ?
Inconsequential, but I think the Mac will object to a vivisection in the name of science.

It is best not to 'tilt at windmills' or 'knock down strawmen'. Mikelm, I am afraid that is what you are setting out to do.
john curl said:Jan, I just read your article in 'Audio Express' on the Mundorf company who makes coils. Very interesting! Maybe some of what you learned could be expressed here.
For the record, 'self healing' caps are pretty standard stuff. Mundorf can't really take credit of for it.
Yeah, I mentioned in the article that as far as I know they did it on the scale and application noted.
Still, it's really nice to be able to talk to people who clearly are tinkerers in the real sense - they have an idea, work it out and come up with interesting products. Something I really would have liked to be doing. Maybe now that I have retired just last month, I get more time for things like that.
One thing I learned is that better stuff is almost invariably more expensive then its simpler counterpart, just because it is more difficult to make or requires more or more expensive material. BUT! That doesn't mean more expensive stuff is by definition better.
For instance, if some producer would sell one amp per week, that amp would have to cost a certain amount just to keep the producer alive, whatever the cost or merit of that amp. I believe that this is sometimes the reason why the difference between 'normal' hifi and hi end is much more in price than it is in quality.
Jan Didden
Sometimes that is true, Jan. Just like food. Mass produced food can be very cheap. Garden raised food can be very expensive, but what a difference!
Mass produced things just are NOT the same as handmade or hand raised things. Sometimes, we can get away with mass produced, but not always.
People of wealth can well afford to seek out the better things, and they are usually NOT mass produced. This is what keeps little companies, like Bear and I have, in business.
Parasound is limited mass production, so it doesn't count in this example, it is sort of in-between.
Mass produced things just are NOT the same as handmade or hand raised things. Sometimes, we can get away with mass produced, but not always.
People of wealth can well afford to seek out the better things, and they are usually NOT mass produced. This is what keeps little companies, like Bear and I have, in business.
Parasound is limited mass production, so it doesn't count in this example, it is sort of in-between.
janneman said:
For instance, if some producer would sell one amp per week, that amp would have to cost a certain amount just to keep the producer alive, whatever the cost or merit of that amp. I believe that this is sometimes the reason why the difference between 'normal' hifi and hi end is much more in price than it is in quality.
Jan Didden
Thus...companies like Tenor. 35 pair per year. $60k a pair, I think.
Those of you who wonder, just try to make something very special. See how long it takes, and what a hassle it is. Now do 60 per year. I dare you! You people are naive fools!
It might be nice to open a separate thread regarding price issues in an individual component production 😉
john curl said:Those of you who wonder, just try to make something very special. See how long it takes, and what a hassle it is.[snip]
I agree. I once built a series of 10 power amps for a friend. For some reason it felt like MUCH more effort and hassle than 10 times a single amp. I don't think it really is, but most private projects take several months to half a year or more. Multiply that by 10 or 60 and you can only do it as a full time job unless you want to spend the next years building the same thing over and over again.
john curl said:[snip] You people are naive fools!
Was that really necessary John?
Jan Didden
Looks like he's been watching the Eddie Murphy tape again.
Raw II, co-starring Mr John Curl in a black leather suit.
Maybe Mr Curl is interested in talking about the hussle of 1 per year, at a 50 million dollar and up rate.
Any Blowtorch cases left ?
Raw II, co-starring Mr John Curl in a black leather suit.
Maybe Mr Curl is interested in talking about the hussle of 1 per year, at a 50 million dollar and up rate.
Any Blowtorch cases left ?
While my last statement was extreme, it is unfortunately accurate. For some reason, when you are attacked, it's too much, but when I am attacked, it is acceptable.
Much of the cost of a component is contained in the materials that it is made from and how expensive they are to fabricate. Rich people like well made and flashy looking components. This is really expensive. Mark-up, especially when the component is sold in another country, such as Japan by the importer and final retailer, is where the money is.
For the record, (and I think this might be a record) my preamp designed and built in my second bedroom, costs 4.95 MILLION YEN. Yet, I refuse to make any more, because it is a losing proposition and too much damn work! Why?
Much of the cost of a component is contained in the materials that it is made from and how expensive they are to fabricate. Rich people like well made and flashy looking components. This is really expensive. Mark-up, especially when the component is sold in another country, such as Japan by the importer and final retailer, is where the money is.
For the record, (and I think this might be a record) my preamp designed and built in my second bedroom, costs 4.95 MILLION YEN. Yet, I refuse to make any more, because it is a losing proposition and too much damn work! Why?
No, my cases did cost $3,000, the price set by the machine shop, however, for each customer. That is about 1/3 the price that I (the designer and manufacturer) get for the final unit that is then sent to Japan. The rest is duty, mark-up, shipping, etc, etc. and is completely out of my hands, and I get nothing else. Why? Ask the retailers, and importers. It is the same for Parasound, in reverse. We buy finished products from Taiwan, at perhaps 1/4 the final retail price. This is normal, and it is not that profitable.
Now, who is naive?
Now, who is naive?
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